I’ve had a few interesting discussions lately both online and offline with folk who are absolutely convinced that multi-level marketing and Amway are scams. The discussions have been with highly intelligent and educated people, including one who is a lecturer in entrepreneurship at a school for business. What I’ve discovered is that the reasoning behind their beliefs fall into two areas -
Ignorance, confusion, and misconceptions about MLM
The first is essentially ignorance or misconceptions. MLM suffers greatly by the fact that virtually all illegal pyramid scams claim to be MLMs. When they inevitably fail or are closed down by the government, the meme that “MLM=scam” is reinforced. In reality this is poor logic. The very reason the scams are claiming to be MLMs is because MLMs are legal, legitimate businesses. Nevertheless, the effect on public perceptions is a daunting problem for the legitimate companies.
Associated with this is many misconceptions about how legitimate MLMs operates. Many folk believe we make money by recruiting others, and “smart” people know that means the model will inevitably “saturate” and you can’t make any money since there’s no longer anyone left to recruit. Of course, this isn’t MLM, it’s an illegal pyramid. We don’t make money by recruiting, we make money through sales volume. MLM isn’t really a business model – it’s a marketing strategy with the aim of increasing sales volume. Indeed, in general for any given level of sales, the more people you recruit to achieve it, the less you make on it. It’s no different to owning say a traditional retail store selling clothes. You could sell them all yourself, and keep the whole profit, or could employ some other sales staff. They’ll cost you money, but you hope that the increase in sales will offset the increase in costs.
These types of misconceptions abound, with people concerned about the legitimate problems inherent in illegal pyramids, and believing they exist in multi-level marketing.
Scammers can scam you with Amway
The second area that seems to influence people is their own personal experiences, or those of people they know, or, increasingly, experiences of others they read on the internet. The interesting thing is, when you delve into the problems with those experiences, they very rarely have anything to do with Amway or multi-level marketing per se, they have to do with how some people operate their multi-level marketing businesses.
You can be scammed in any business. A car salesman can knowingly sell you a lemon. A doctor can overcharge you for a simple procedure. A teacher can “force” you to purchase a substandard text book they’d written and printed themselves. An Amway business owner could sell you Double X by telling you it cures cancer, or you can be a millionaire with little work.
In each case you’ve been scammed, but the scam had nothing to do with the car industry, or the medical profession, or teaching, or Amway. It had to do with those individuals (and perhaps some of their associates) and the way they were behaving.
The multi-level marketing strategy, and Amway as it’s largest representative, is a brilliant way of doing business which allows anyone to start and own their own business, of which ever size they desire, with little financial risk, and without having to pursue it full-time. Just like in any other industry however, you can be scammed, and if you’re so inclined, you can scam people, but like any other industry, the scammers rarely last long.
Amway will soon celebrate it’s 50th anniversary. That should say it all.
Post a comment below or Discuss this post on Amway Talk
Hi,
My parents have been associated with this business since 2001.And I joined this business when i turned 18.I have read in many websites and heard a lot of ‘bad’ things about this company and the business opportunity.Overpriced products is one such complains here too.But as these products(especially the beauty and healthcare products) have been an integral part of my life since my teenage years and I’m proud to say that I’m much more healthier than other girls of my age.As for all the stuff about Amway being a scam and all….in India it has already become a Rs.1200 crores(approx. 25crore USD) business within 10 years of its launch.Today more n more people who are achieving success in this business are below 45 years of age..many like me are still studying.Even I have met people who say that this business is just a farce and it won’t work in India.For all those people who believe that this business opportunity is a scam one must realize that this business is still there and expanding like anything even after celebrating its 50years.As for India…one must attend the weekly meetings and the annual seminar to know if this business is working in India or not.I would also like to add…that I’v just completed my post-grad and never in my life was i taught to be successful or dream big in 19 years of my education…but this business opportunity has shown me that dreaming big is not just any ‘dream’ but its the first step to success.
Lastly, this is to clarify or remind all those people who think that these diamonds are just there to suck the blood and money out of there downlines…..these diamonds also start as any other new distributor does.They also have to sell or join new people under them and toil very hard in order to achieve that level.As they say,”nobody’s a born winner”. Similarly,”nobody’s a born diamond in Amway”.
hey fightback are you on the LTD team, if not what team are you with by the way if you remember me from earlier since then i have gone 4 wide with more potential personal guys and my frontline is doing great with atleast 1 or 2 guys going to meetings every week.
Hi, glad to hear it’s going well! I associate with Network 21.
I think there are a lot of good points here on both sides. I am a q12 platinum and my wife and I made money at that level and got out of debt. We could have made more had we listened to our Diamond IBO’s rather than the Emeralds we were with. Success in the business is a function of a few things.
1. Who you are listening to
2. Are you willing to go through the numbers (as in any sales)
3. Do you have and use common sense?
It takes time and hard work and who you listen to makes a big difference. We went Platinum wrong the first time because our upline liked to encourage people to stretch their own finances to make it to the next level. People would stretch 200 points which is $500 to make an extra $150.(this is where we lacked the common sense as it is a business)Since we have been listening to our Diamonds, our team has become more profitable because they stabalize their pin level and create a plan to go to the next. You can use simple Profit and Loss statements to do this.
With Amway, you need to have a good sponsor or mentor who knows what they are doing. I don’t think its appropriate to ask for their bonus check, but instead, you can ask them to draw out their business as well as their own personal circle and include customers. If they have a 300 pv circle and no customers, run away and find someone who can develop customers.
As far as the cd’s and books go, they have helped me move forward in my personal life, work life, and family life. I don’t think anyone can put that little value on $50. As Platinums we have a buy back policy and we enforce it. When it comes to functions, I always offer to refund the ticket price if the new IBO does not feel it was worth it. I have refunded 2. So use some common business sense and choose your upline carefully.
Hi my name Is J. I love Amway Global but i am having a tough time finding a dream to hold on to. Distraction and self doubt are trying to creep in everyday. I want to be free and believe like the diamonds do. I am investing into my business by buying CDs, books, and products but it as been a difficult road to contact qualified people to show the plan to. I need to get 9 core but can’t seem to get disciplined. I look around me and i see people growing and moving forward but it kills me when i am not doing the same. There is nothing much someone can tell me except don’t quit which i understand but networking for me has been difficult. I am Chaldean which is Iraqi catholic it should not be an excuses but its a little more challenging for me personally. I know there are people who have it worse but still are going crazy with the business. i know there is no miracle powder but just cowboy up and doing what it takes to get it done. I want to make this fun but making money is fun too and i am not making enough of it. No one can tell me this business does not work because it does work its just how can i make it work for me. Who ever believe is awesome keep up the hard work and do what you have to. I hope one day i can believe like the diamonds do and blow the hinges off them doors. I pray to God that he gives me the strength not to ever quit. Whoever says this business is a scam and it does not work please do me the honer of pointing out to me something that is better that pays you an on going income that a young 22 year old which i am not i am 28 but a young 22 year old student can create and become financially independent or 30 year old 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 hey maybe you can retire now lol. When you say something is a scam and it does not work point out the flaws and the reason it does not work and then direct us to something better.
Hi J! As my upline Crown Ambassador would say … you’re right on track!! Fear, doubt, distractions, discipline, these are the challenges of all who want to succeed in any arena, not just Amway. Discipline has always been my biggest challenge as well. Talk to your upline and I’m sure they can suggest some great books to read that may help. One thing that has helped me a lot is to look not for big dreams, but for small challenges, like qualifying for some upcoming meeting. Otherwise, it’s perfectly alright to just hang around and learn until you’re ready to go. Not everyone’s time is now. Most groups have a thing called “no crosslining”, which is a kind of “rule” that says you shouldn’t discuss your business with people outside your own line of sponsorship. What you are doing when you compare yourself to other people who are growing is “mental crosslining”. You don’t know their circumstances, they don’t know yours. What they are doing doesn’t matter except that it shows it’s possible. So … check with your upline for some resources that may help with goal setting, and relax and enjoy the ride! Amway will still be there when you’re ready.
Got it. I’ll try that.
By the way, here’s a demo my upline showed me with the glisterine mouth spray. It’s a simple demo where you use write a line on your hand with a ballpen then give it a spray from glisterine. The ink easily spreads out and is easy to clean. This means that glisterine can remove the bacteria and other foreign materials in your mouth easily to remove bad odors. What do you think of this?
Well the seminars are offered by other companies, so clearly they can’t be free! Amway has some expos and other seminars as well. Some are free, some are not. In either case they’re pretty much always A LOT cheaper than similar seminars outside the amway world.
Unfortunately I know of no demo for Acerola C. Ask on AmwayTalk or you could try on the Nutrilite page on Facebook.
I’m sorry about my early posts about the seminars bothering me.
I meant that what bothered me are the seminars in the US are not for free.
I’m really actively attending the seminars any chance I get. It’s a great way to learn about the product and get a chance to talk to successful diamond IBOs.
I’m also considering about my demo on acerola c. Can you tell me how you do it or email me your demo?
The seminars kinda bothers me. Almost all of the seminars are free. Some they put up a price of P100 ($2.2).
Frankly I’m more interested with the nutrilite products and the agriculture products.
Are you guys also able to do a demo on acerola c and lecithin e? I wasn’t able to find a video demonstration on youtube or other website. But you can demonstrate the efficiency of acerola c by taking a small bottle of water and put a few drops of betadine which will make the water brownish. Adding acerola c and shaking the bottle will make the water clear again under 3 minutes. Adding another few drops of betadine and shaking the water, the water becomes clear much faster.
Seminars are seminars. If you don’t think there worthwhile, don’t go! Indeed, most ABOs don’t. I find them worthwhile, so I go, and recommend them to others.
I’m not if the acerola c demo is all that useful, since it would work with any product with ascorbic acid in it, wouldn’t it? I tend to demo daily by dissolving it and let people smell the plants, and compare it to other brands which almost always look the exact same and dissolve poorly.
I got a question. What are these books, tapes and cd’s being sold to amway IBO’s in america or europe? I’m in the phillipines which and amway just came here in 2006. Our current products are nutrilite, nutriplant or amway agriculture, artistry and the bathroom amway basics.
Our sign up fee was P2000 (Converted to dollars would be $41.7) until the crown ambassador of taiwan and thailand, mark su slash the price to P1000 (Which would be $21.4) and an annual fee of P250 ($5). I still haven’t signed up yet (I’m still gathering potential customers and hopefully future downlines). What’s more unbelievable is the double diamond taiwanese leader who set up a promotion to gather 30 frontliners (Can someone tell me the difference to frontliners and downliners?) who can accumulate a sale of P5000 per head. If we are able to mantain it for three months, we get to go to an all expense paid trip to china, japan and korea.
The nutrilite products we are selling is truly amazing. Not only can you tell your customers that nutrilite is good for the body, you can also demonstrate the product to the customers.
I am curious as to what are those books, cds and seminars you guys are talking about. I’m still fresh about what amway is since I was just asked to join early this month.
The “tools” are various things offered by 3rd party “system” companies (and also Amway in some countries) to help build an Amway network.
The books are just books! Books on personal development, leadership, personal skills, sales skills, goal setting, all sorts of things. Most are available through regular book stores and amazon.com and such, but I usually find they’re cheaper from the “system” companies.
The seminars are seminars run by these companies. In some countries Amway still run these types of seminars, but in older, larger markets companies setup by succesful IBOs have mostly taken over the role.
The tapes and CDs are recordings of various seminars, and occasionally also recordings from “outside” speakers that might be found useful.
There’s been some problems in some groups with people getting a little overzealous marketing the tapes/books/meetings business rather than the Amway business.
“Frontline” are people you have personally introduced to Amway. “Downline” are all of your frontline, plus anyone introduced into the network by your frontline or there frontline and so on and so on.
That Taiwanese challenge sounds great!
I have just been introduced to the Amway business and are considering joining the Amway program. My sponsor tells me that the key to succeed in Amway is to use the products and recomend them to others. In fact i have tried/seen several of the products and rather enjoy alot of them.
After reading lots of posting about Amway im sceptical of the system but i do belive and trust my sponsor.
Im reading about all the books and seminars and i wonder is this something you have to buy and attend to ?
You don’t have to do anything. What I recommend though is trying stuff and evaluating for yourself if it’s of value. Me, when I did my first degree I basically skipped classes, focusing on girls and sport. I barely passed. Later I did another degree. I went to the lectures and read the books. I got top marks. I’ve had much the same experience trying different things with Amway
Question for Ibofightback -
What’s your slant on the Dateline NBC story from Sept 2006?
What’s to say? The guy making stupid income claims got in trouble from Amway, rightly. The show focused on one group within one part of Amway, virtually everyone they interviewed had connections with that group. And then – what did they get? Some silly chants, and the amazing “revelation” that Quixtar was an offshoot of Amway, people who sell stuff (tools) make money selling stuff, and some people don’t succeed at Amway.
That’s a story?
Heck, I could have come up with a “worse” story than that
I downloaded a free e-book entitled “Merchants of Deception”.
The information from the e-book was enough for me to decide to quit the Amway business. I’m convinced that Amway and many of its distributors use/condone deception and unethical methods to lure and keep people into the business.
So let me get this straight – you downloaded and read a self-published book by one guy, who buy his own admission didn’t build the business properly, and whom mostly just complains about the one small group he was in, and problems not with the Amway business but his particular upline. Much of that upline has since been kicked out of Amway, the author of the book himself has had to apologise to Amway for making false statements to the media – and NONE of this small group in one part of one of Amway’s many markets has anything at all to do with you in Japan (based on your email and nick) … or pretty much 99.99% of Amway … and that was enough to make you decide to quit?
Pull the other one, it’s got bells on. You were looking for an excuse to quit and decided this was as good (or bad) as any.
Thanks fightback but actually a good thing from this business is that before i got in my brother and i never get along but now we actaully hang out and act more like brothers. lol
again thanks for the advice
well i was kind of looking for some unbiased advice.
Fair enough, but when you think about it, your brother’s advice is biased in a *good* way. If he gives you good advice, and you succeed – he makes money! We have no such incentive
Part of the problem with “internet advice” too is that advice that may be good for one person is not necessarily the right advice for another. An upline who is working with you can know your situation better and give more relevant advice.
Having said that, working with family can be a challenge. If that’s the case with you and your brother you might want to consider working more closely with someone else in your upline.
Looking for ( or rather getting) unbiased opinion from wrong person. This site is run by someone associated with Amway.
The problem is NAIBOAM, is that anyone who has a positive opinion about Amway virtually by definition will be “associated” with them. When I started being an pro-Amway internet activist my “association” was that I was a former IBO and since then I’ve been little more than a customer getting better pricing.
Or are you claiming I work for Amway? I don’t.
Still, there’s plenty of independent assessments of the Amway Corporation and Amway’s products out there. Check out http://www.amwaywiki.com/Awards_and_Recognitions.
Seriously, your brother has clearly been successful. Why would you ask anonymous folk on the ‘net for help when you’ve got someone so close willing to help you? I almost get the impression you’re hoping there’s shortcuts to success
alright thanks man
Not as much as your brother
Thanks man by the way wats ur usual end of the month pv if you don’t mind me asking?
THANKS IBOFIGHTBACK
Can some one please put it in simple for AMWAY UK following of my concerns?
1.Is there a charge to join,remain or quit?
2.Do you have to attend seminars regularly? Do you have to pay to participate? If yes then how much ?
3.Is it permitted to show case your Amway Products at public gathering? i.e. car boot sale…
4.Is it permitted to do door to door sale?
Thanks
Nilesh
I’d suggest asking this on Amway Talk where there’s some regular UK contributers. It will also of course make sense to ask Amway UK! I believe however that the answers are -
1. No there’s no fees in the UK
2. No, you don’t have to attend any seminars. I believe some are free and some are paid. No idea how much.
3. Check with Amway UK, but I think the answer is yes, if you get prior approval
4. Sure, if that’s what you want to do
I did and he said yeah but that’s kind of a bias decision because he did use the cds and conferences to become successful but I was wondering if it is possible to become that successful and that short amount of time without those expenses.
Thanks for Responding
Possible perhaps. Smart? Doubt it. CDs and seminars allow you to duplicate your time and take advantage of folk who are a lot more successful than you. It all rests on your credibility, which as a new and by definition not yet succesful ABO, means alas not much credibility! So we use other peoples credibility. The books, cds, and seminars can also keep building your business while you’re sleeping, or travelling, or working somewhere else.
Finally, they have benefits for you directly. Most folk have stuff to learn, people skills, sales skills, leadership skills, whatever. Even having learned it, we need to put it in to action. I personally find I am far more “active” in all areas of my life when I’m listening to CDs and going to seminars. They help keep me focused on my goals. I think most people have similar experiences.
So yes, you could probably do it without them, but it would be enormously harder and probably not as stable a business. If money is a problem remember that you ARE in a business, the expenses are very low for a business, and you CAN make money from week one retailing to cover the expenses
Hey I signed up on Amway about two weeks ago and my brother is doing pretty good just went platinum. I was wondering if it is possible to become that successful and more without buying all the extra motivational cds and conferences like the 100 degree summer tour.
Thanks for Advice
Ask your brother
A friend told me about Amway, I went to one of the seminars and after listening to them I thought it was total BS. I came online to research about them and was suprise to see that it had *SCAM* written all over it.
Can anyone tell me if they know about Amway in Guyana?
I don’t think Amway is operating in Guyana. Why would you want to know since you appear to think it’s BS and a scam?
You are right. Amway is no different than anything else in the world. People left and right are failing. Most people in life do not “succeed” in many arenas in their life–financially, physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally.
The world is filled with in debt, fat, undiciplined in thought, spiritually-bankrupt, broken-and-strained-relationships people.
Yep.
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From personal experience, both in my own business as well as the hundreds of businesses I know details about, most IBOs do not build large organizations with people they knew prior to becoming an Amway IBOs.
However, “cold calling” is not how I was personally trained, nor those IBOs whom I know, in order to build their organizations. I’m not saying some IBOs aren’t trained this way. I just don’t think it’s very effective since most people are unwilling to do it.
There is something called “rapport.” Is your definition of “salesmanship”, the ability to LISTEN, and to CONNECT, with people? I think it is being a decent human being who knows how to effectively communicate with people. And reaps rewards not in business, but in life.
It’s a skill that can be LEARNED, and is not based on a “personality type.”
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The primary “thing” a person needs to “succeed” in life, whether it be financially, physically, emotionally, spiritually or relationally, is DESIRE.
And desire is something that, I believe, needs to be flamed daily. Why am I doing the uncomfortable–whether it be building rapport, or lifting weights, or saying “I’m sorry” to my husband (thus admitting my pride)?
Because (in these examples) I desire some financial cushion, a healthy body, and a rock-solid marriage.
I understand I am not like most people. I understand that most people don’t want to put in the effort to CHANGE. That’s just fine. Whatever floats your boat. Whatever rocks your world.
Amway is not for everyone. Never was, never will be.
The bottom line is that most people fail in this business just as with any other business, you can’t deny that although Amway certainly doesn’t preach that fact at their meetings and why should they, it’s a sales presentation.
Sure, if you’re looking to start your own business this one is attractive because it is less capital intensive than just about any other business start up out there. There is also a very nice model that can be followed which inhibits even less work on behalf of the new business owner.
Most people do not know 300 people as you stated in your example which means that they have to “hit the streets”, cold call, or do some other form of salesmanship in order to make any kind of real profit. You will never convince me that this is not the case, I’m sure it may have happened to some people but that is not the norm.
It takes a certain type of person to succeed at running a business, most people do not have what it takes. I know that sounds negative but here in the real world that’s how it works.
I disagree Toby, most people who put a serious effort (ie something remotely close to what they’re told is required!) do not fail. Now … most people do not “succeed”, but that’s because they don’t even try! I do not consider someone who puts an entry into the Boston Marathon and then, for whatever reason, does not make the start line to have “failed”. They haven’t succeeded in running the marathon, but they certainly haven’t failed yet either.
Your last comment I disagree with. The average person would probably encounter more than 300 people in a month, let alone across a lifetime. Now I don’t recommend talking to every person you meet (called “the 3 foot rule” in sales) but you can’t seriously tell me that over the period of say 3 years, a person couldn’t find 300 people just to talk to if they put in the effort! That’s less than 2 a week! Yes, you have to open your mouth and talk to people. Anyone can do that if they decide to (heck, even folk who use sign language of built big groups!). Now, if they don’t want to, that’s a different story, and that’s every individuals choice.
Today I stopped in a shop in town which will be closing its doors on Saturday. I’m a curious type, and have a good relationship with the owner, so I pretty much asked her what happened. Through a series of questions I found out:
In the four years she owned the business, it was never profitable.
The owners before her were not profitable for the last three years of ownership.
Other franchise owners she knows in the area and around the U.S. are making healthy six-figure incomes from their shops.
She worked 60-hour weeks in her shop (food, so baking and early hours were part of her routine).
She is a wife and she is a mom, of young children.
She was formally a CFO in the corp world.
Along with bank loans, she had invested her sixteen years of her corporate bonuses into her “traditional” business that is now closing in less than 48 hours.
While I agree that there are “bad” people associated with Amway who do stupid things, the Amway Business itself is really amazing–whether one chooses to make a little or a lot of money.
As I walked out of her shop, kind of dazed, I compared her business model to Amway’s. How wonderful it is that I can help a new IBO (right there, a MAJOR difference between her business and my business–personal, hands on HELP)get started without all the risk she had/has.
And as that new IBO grows personally (people skills and organizational skills seem to be the two biggest ones I’ve seen to be important) then they are able to put more time, and maybe some more money, in to their business, and reap even greater results.
Or, if the new IBO decides that the Amway business is not for them, they can either become “inactive” for any period of time, or they can quit/not renew, without losing everything, like my local shop owner has.
Sidenote: She has a good attitude, living by the motto: “Pain in inevitable; suffering is optional.”
I go to tax seminars and when the word Amway is brought up all the accountants in the room just chuckle. The IRS has even set guidelines specific to Amway becuase they recieve so many tax returns that show losses because the majority of people are not meant to run a business, this is why most businesses fail, it’s the same for any business.
Maybe it wasn’t you but I read an earlier post claiming that people are retiring at early ages and are collecting money off the people below them, so you say there is no incentive to get people under you? I realize that the smart sponsor would obviously want the people under them to succeed, but that doesn’t happen as often as you would lead people to believe.
I know that I for one would never be successful in a business like this, heck I hated selling subs in highschool for fund raisers. If you don’t have the salesperson mentality then you better darn well have a heck of a network to pull from, otherwise it’s door to door and most people don’t like that kind of pressure.
I guess my point is that most people treat a business like this as a hobby without much business sense behind it, this is why most people fail at it. If you can afford to go into it full boar then you stand a much better chance of being successful, but if you do it part time it just makes it that much harder. Most people can’t just up and quit their jobs to take a risk like that. Again this is why I believe there is so much negativity around the whole thing. I’m sorry but where I’m from there is are way more negatives than positives about Amway, do a quick google search and you’ll find the same.
And by the way I’ve had clients show losses on their returns of upwards of $50,000 in the first 3 years. They spent that much on training materials, travel and seminars. You do bring a good point though that these things should not be bought until the business can afford to buy them, if it was done this way then I really don’t see how you could lose as long as you’re selling the product for more than you buy it for.
Wow – no offence Toby, you really don’t have much knowledge of how Amway works, do you? It’s “door to door”? It’s never been a door-knocking business. You need to go “full bore” to be successful? Depends what you call full bore, but the whole thing is designed to be part-time – virtually every successful IBO (there are exceptions) started part-time. Most folk recommend NOT going full-time. My organisation recommends not going full-time until you make 3 times as much from Amway as your regular job. And yes, there’s incentive to register people, but only to help them succeed! There’s zero incentive to enroll people with “no chance” of success, as you suggested. Indeed, it will likely cost you time and money, so why do it? (which isn’t to say some misguided folk don’t do it anyway)
As for your tax seminars, I’m not surprised some accountants chuckle – that’s because lots of folk join Amway, don’t treat it as a business, and hope they can con the IRS. That really doesn’t have much at all to do with Amway though, does it? Promoting tax advantages is actually explictly against Amway’s rules. Having said all of that, I can point you to plenty of accountants with successful, profitable Amway businesses.
Regarding expenses, I didn’t say “these things should not be bought until the business can afford to buy them” – why apply that standard? It doesn’t apply to any other business! Most businesses require significant financial investment to succeed, and I’d suggest it’s not uncommon for a startup entrepreneur to put a LOT more than $50,000 into a business over 3 years. I know I’ve spent way more than that in the various businesses I’ve started. Having said that, I’d suggest that is rare in the Amway business, and indeed excessive. But …. if you can’t afford to invest money, then don’t! It is possible, albeit harder, to borrow materials and build up until the business can afford to pay these things. I’ve also taken that path in traditional business and it is definitely the hard track – undercapitalisation is one of the major causes of business failure.
I firmly believe *anyone* of able mind can succeed at the Amway business, but it’s not for everyone, and I’m certainly sorry if you got the idea I think sponsoring people who succeed “happens often” – there’s plenty of statistics throughout this site that should give the opposite impression! Statistically, you need to show at least 100 people to get 20 to join, and you need at least 20 to join to get 3 who go on to build a decent business. To show 100 people you probably need to invite at least 300! So you have to deal with 2/3 of folk you call not wanting to meet, you need to accept 80% you see not interested in joining, and then you have to accept 85% of them not taking it seriously! The “work” in itself isn’t hard – but it’s psychologically very difficult. It’s also may only be 15-20hrs a week, but when you start it’s 15-20hrs a week ON TOP of your 40-50hr work week and whatever other committments you have … for at least a couple of years!
That’s hard, no way around it, and nobody who treats this business seriously hides the fact. But if you believed the reward was big enough, anyone could learn the skills necessary and put the time in to do it – even you, Toby!
I will agree that Amway is not a scam, but I do believe that many people have been misled. Many times when you hear about this business it is presented in a “too good to be true” tone. When it is presented in that fashion it is very deceitful. There is no doubt that there is a ton of work that needs to be put into the business before it could ever be successful. If you ever want to know truly how successful the person trying to sponsor you for this business is ask them if you can see their tax return. I have prepared many tax returns for Amway distributors and I have never seen any of them make a profit. In many instances I’ve seen people lose 10′s of thousands of dollars a year, in which case we actually had to reclassify the business to a hobby because of the IRS’s hobby rules.
Most people do not have the salesperson personality, if you don’t have that then you will almost always fail at a business such as this. Unfortunately the people that are involved with this business don’t really care if the business is a good fit for your personality, they just want you in so they can make money off of you. I believe that this is why so many people have nothing but bad things to say about Amway.
Toby, some of the biggest achievers in Amway never had a “salesperson personality”. Guys like Founders Crown Ambassadors Mitch Sala and Jim Dornan were shy engineers … heck, Mitch Sala talks about how if the phone rang he wouldn’t even answer it because he didn’t like talking to people. There is story afetr story after story similar to this. Indeed I was reading a book on network marketing recently and the author said that “salespeople” tend not to succeed … they may do well initially but don’t develop the far more important leadership and personal skills needed for long term success. The idea you have to have a “salesperson personality” is a myth. That’s why people donb’t care about your “personality” – it’s because the evidence shows it doesn’t matter. If you don’t believe me, I recommend reading some of the many books about Amway that include interviews with top achievers, or read the stories available in the Amagram and Achiever magazines on Amway Wiki.
If someone is claiming success, then buy all means ask for some proof. A tax return is perhaps a little too much, as it will have details of their non-Amway incomes as well. I’d note though that the majority of people are sponsored by someone who is new in the business – why would you ask to see their tax returns when any sensible person would not expect them to be profiting? Unless you’re getting sponsored by someone like a Platinum or higher it would simply be a silly request.
I’m curious about your claim that people were both “losing 10′s of thousands of dollars” but at the same time you had to reclassify them as a “hobby”? Isn’t that a bit of a hint as to why they’re not profitable? They don’t have a business! Registering as an IBO gives you the right to market and distribute the products, it doesn’t mean you’re running an Amway business! Do you – or they for that matter – expect to be making money from an “Amway hobby”? I suspect they were just hoping to get some tax deductions – which quite rightly should be disallowed if they’re not actively treating it as a business.
How many of the returns did you prepare where of IBOs who had been active for at least 18-24 months and qualified as running a business?
Your final comment makes no sense and indicates you don’t understand the business model (which is a concern if you’d prepared so many tax returns!) – you don’t make any money by just getting people “in”, there’s zero incentive to get people “in” without any care whether they may succeed or not.
Having said that, you’re entirely correct that folk have been misled. I doubt that, put in perspective, it could be considered “many” though. In the last decade alone there’s probably been close to 6 million folk involved with Amway/Quixtar in North America alone. Out of that 6 million over 10 years there’s been less than a 100 complaints registered with the BBB and similar relatively small numbers of complaints on the internet – so we’re taking 0.001% complaining in some official or public fashion. Even if you multiply it ten fold it’s a tiny percentage. Mind you, even 1 is too many!
This is not a scam at all. I am an IBO and the group I am in is becoming very successful. A couple of people that I personally know are retired in their late 20′s. This is nothing to joke about. Do not misunderstand though. This is not a “get rich quick” type thing. The money an IBO makes depends on the time and effort a person puts into his or her business. Give it a shot!
YJIK said, “How can it be a scam when theoretically you can generate more money than your sponsor above you?”
Forget theory. Someone we sponsored DOES make more money than we do. Am I upset about it? Heck no. Why?
Because:
1) His volume increases our Performance Bonus bracket percentage.
and
2) Unlike other businesses, Amway does not penalize you when someone you sponsor has more volume than you do, by either denying you such bonuses, or by taking away that leg/organization/downline from you.
The Amway Compensation Plan is the fairest comp plan I’ve seen on the planet. Plus their products are pretty great too.
Hi,
I have been with Amway Global for about 3 weeks now and have taken it very seriously i just seem to have one problem. When i tell people about it and ask them if they are interested in coming to the seminar they say its a scam and most of the time reject me. I think its the way i explain it to them thats the problem so can anyone give me a good outline of things to say that could persude people to just come to the free seminar?
I am not an IBO but am considering joining and giving it a shot. The main thing holding me back is all the negativity around AMWAY/IBO’s where I am afraid that if I try to get someone to join and they do a quick google on all the negativity surrounding it they will think im trying to lure them into a scam and sour our friendship.
This is not a scam. My sponsor has been nothing but straightforward and honest with me from day 1 and has promised me nothing. He has reiterated to me many times this is NOT a get rich quick scheme. He said I can do anything I want with it. If I am just looking to make a hundred bucks a month thats fine, if I want to make more and make it grow I can do that too if I put in the effort. I havent been forced to buy CDs or anything. In fact my sponsor bought a few CDs for me out of his own pocket.
For those who call this a variation of a pyramid scheme just ask yourself this; How can it be a scam when theoretically you can generate more money than your sponsor above you? Think about it.
I met a 27 year old kid who is already making around $150,000 per year as an IBO. His wife already retired. He got into the business only a few years ago after being a special ed students teacher. So its a complete fallacy that only the old timers got rich off this when they rode the initial wave 20 or some years ago.
So in short
Is it a scam? No
Is it get rich quick? No
Is everybody going to get rich? No
Is it possible to make serious money? Yes
Thanks for the comments. The more people with positive experiences and real facts post on the ‘net, the less the negativity will be visible, and the easier things will get!
I don’t believe the overpriced issue has anything to do with the price that the consumer is charged, but rather has to do with the markup that the distributors are provided with. The theoretical model that is presented indicates an average markup of 15-20% on the products. This isn’t very much. If someone wants to make $3,000 in a month they will need to sell $15,000 – $20,000 to make that profit (ignoring expenses and potential bonuses from/to the downline – if you have one). Why not allow the distributors to keep a higher %-age of the product price and stop rewarding the upline with their FAT checks for the points in their downline. Why should they be rewarded for the sweat and hard work of others. Tell them to get out and sell the products themself and actually earn that check. Your better option is to find a company where your work doesn’t directly influence the potential earnings of a line of individuals who otherwise have little interest in your success. Finally, if any sales pitch for success is based on theoretical information (which theirs is), proceed with caution.
Michael, you appear to have misunderstood the business model. The total markup from manufacturing cost to recommended retail price is approximately 65%. 25% of that is in volume rebates, 25-35% is in the retail markup off base rate, and 5-10% in other bonuses. The majority of the markup goes to the person doing the work. An upline emerald or diamond gets at most 5%. An emerald or diamond higher up gets less than 1%, usually less than 0.25%. The 25% volume rebates is on average shared between the “selling” distributor and 5 others – so less than 5% each.
They earned that by working with the new distributor free of charge, usually for many months and years, and continuing to work with the distributor as much as is requested. If a distributor himself gets to the 25% volume rebate level, then his total retail markup is around 55-65%. If he gets to Ruby volume, another 4%. If he does it for 12 months, another 4%.
As you can see your conclusions are based on false premises.
I joined after lots of research. I’m glad i did. it all comes down to simple math… x amount of product = x amount of money. It all comes down to which mentor group you fall under. i don’t know which group some of u fall under but they are scamming you, my group never charges to sign up (don’t see where people are paying hundreds to sign up). My group NEVER makes you attend a meeting or buy a book or cd. they give you a list of recommendec reading and most uplines will let u borrow their books or cds. My upline has put more time into my business than i have (and he is six people above me). Just for these reasons i see why my group is so successful and others have alot of unhappy poor people. i personallh know more diamonds who help me than my upline. If ur thinking of joining, do it, but find the best group, not ones who sign u up and never see again. email me @ ntdgg82@yahoo.com if u want to find out more.
This will be my only coment on here:
Out of all the business choices out there why would you choose one that, given a quick little googling, nets you results showing Amway scam this, Amway scam that?
I have a friend that just started this, and I googled where he works, Staples. Nothing, no mention of scams. I googled Amway however and nearly every other link was something about a scam?
Now, to clarify, I’m not saying your company scams or schemes, but given the choice between a reputable company and one with tarnish, why would you choose the latter? I would want my friend to work for a company where if he did say the name of it, there wouldn’t be a possibility of someone saying, “Oh, the Amway MLM scam?”
Once again, I do not endorse, nor deny that this company is in full or part a scam.
I will not be checking for a comment, this is for other people to read, not to start debates.
Most things in life have their positives and negatives, Amway is no exception. With Amway one of the negatives is the perception it’s a scam, particularly if “googled” (and I’ve made numerous posts as to the origin of that). So why would one choose to get involved? Because the positives still easily outweigh the negatives. When the “perception” is also false, and with appropriate activism can be changed, even more so.
Tell me why there is – “perception it’s a scam” ?
It’s because there is some truth in it.
Websites/people endorsing Amway have something to profit from it. While those bashing don’t stand to gain anything.. They why we have so many people bashing – because they or someone they know got scammed.
You say profit comes from sales and not from recruiting others – I asked once a Platinum IBO how much of his (or Amway in general) sales come from outside the IBO network.. Didn’t get an answer.
So profit comes from recruting IBOs and seeling overpriced products/Motivational material to them in the pre-text of “use your Own Products”.
An IBO would compare buying from walmart – walmart doesn’t pay you while Amway does for buying shopping -sure they do – they charge $10 for a $3 product and give you back a dollar and your uplines a couple of dollars.
I am surprised It’s been going on for 50 years.. ( But then Bernie Madoff also went on for years)…
NAIBOAM, in my other reply to you I provided a link to a list which collates dozens and dozens of independent pro-Amway commentary, so your initial assertion is demonstrably false. Your commentary re pricing shows where you are coming from though. You believe the products are over-priced and nobody buys them unless they think it will make them money. This too is demonstrably false. I for one buy the products because I think they’re fantastic. I know many people, both IBOs and non-IBOs, that do the same. If you don’t like them, that’s your opinion. Many, many pthers disagree (including the many independent assessments collated on Amway Wiki). That’s why it’s been going on for 50 years. No surprise.
When people say this is a SCAM I simply say call the ” Police” if you think it is a SCAM. And you know what not one of them ever can, why because it one of the best business plan.
Hi,
Somebody can tell me please whether i should join amway or not. How much time i have to spent. how many members i have to make and wat volume of products i have to sell to make a constant earning of $100 a month.
Is it necessary to attend meetings and buy cd’s and books and how much they cost and i frequent i have to buy them.
I must say that this posting by ibofightback has been very interesting reading.
I’m from Malaysia and sad to say, my country is famous for its many overnight Get Rich Quick scams.
We have over 1000 companies registered with the Direct Sales Association alone for a country of 25 million people and fewer than 16 million adults!
Many companies promise quick money for little investment (“little” being relative) and many people fall for them.
So yes, Amway and the MLM / Direct Sales business quite often do get lumped together with these scams and yes, the perception is difficult to shake.
I joined Amway in 1999 and in August this year, will celebrate my 10th anniversary as a distributor (aka IBO). I am not yet a Platinum mainly because I didn’t work my business consistently and partly cos I lost focus half way for a few years of doing something else.
Yes, like Mo Katya, I too have put in thousand in audios, books and functions. But much of it has been because I had bought more than I needed (mainly also cos I never checked with my uplines how much I really needed) and yes as ibofightback wrote, I was irresponsible with a lot of the materials, just giving it to people who weren’t really interested and who eventually “lost” them.
However, I still have faith and trust in the opportunity. And yes, I can fully testify that to succeed in business (any business) one needs to fail several times. I had built a good sized team in 1999-2000 only to have it collapse because I got all egoistic and started pressuring the key person on that team until he quit and when he quit, with the engine gone, so did the steam and I was not capable enough at that time to pick up the ball. Mistake # 1, failure # 1, lesson # 1.
Then, after a period of feeling sorry for myself, I got into it again and built up another team. Only this time I sort of let go on automatic in the sense that I didn’t personally get myself involved in building relationships with the people in that team and left it all up to my uplines. All might have been fine until I started noticing some strange behaviors and comments coming from my uplines regarding the business and the organization I was (and still am) a part of. Perhaps being a bit too “reliant” on the “system” and leaving it up to this group of uplines, was my mistake # 2, because shortly thereafter, this group of uplines broke away from our organization and took this new team with them.
The break in the Line Of Affiliation, was painful but at least I thought my former team would still be in the business and my efforts in building that team would be somehow preserved. Unfortunately, this break away group eventually stopped being active and many of them ventured into some gold coin investment (which is now 5 years past its supposed maturity date) and /or joined another MLM company. So this became my failure # 2, lesson # 2.
So what were my lessons
1 – this is a volunteer business – you joined the business voluntarily, you build it voluntarily so you can’t act like a boss and expect people to stay
2 – your team is YOUR team – you brought them in or helped to bring them in so YOU have to build the relationship with them and provide them with the guidance or at the very least PERSONALLY bring them to someone who can give them the type of guidance that you can’t
Another lesson is yes, a system to train, motivate, instruct and inform is indeed needed especially when you’re still green and inexperienced yourself.
So here I am, year 10, round 3 and going at it again. Older and wiser and still full of faith that Diamond for me is achievable. It’s only been 10 years since I joined and I’m only 43 this year. There was a couple in NZ who joined in 1991 and just last year went Diamond. 17 years! And they’re in their 50s. 17 years is a long time but if you’re not in the Amway business what else out there do you have that you can be a part of and COAST for 15 years, get active a again for 2 and at the end of it have a residual income that you grandkids can inherit?
You know why I know this business is so great? The uplines I had who quit our group and joined another MLM, they still keep renewing as is one of my team members from my second team who followed them. Why? Because I am working with someone downline of that team member and I personally am still active and when I help that downline team member of mine who is 3 levels below me to go Platinum, Emerald or Diamond, all of them stand to get either a 4% or 1% bonus check every month regardless of whether they are active or not!
And to Robert, whose wife is building the business, when your wife qualifies for an Amway Leadership Seminar (ALS) all expenses paid 5 Star Plus FREE (sorry that’s redundant but I still love to say it) trip with EXTRA POCKET MONEY given, if she was kind enough to sign your name too on the SA88 form or whatever the code for the registration form is for your country, YOU GET TO GO TOO! YOU ALSO GET A 50% SHARE OF ALL BONUSES SHE GETS! Even when you have lambasted the business that she has tagged her dreams and hopes to. Which brings a question to my mind, with your declared income and the 158 hours of free time that you have, why does she need to look to Amway to get her dreams and hopes? Maybe that’s a question you need to ask yourself rather than whether Amway is a scam or not.
What other MLM or direct sales business can you get in for less than 100 in any currency (excluding products) and even some countries like South Korea and the UK its FREE and you are not required to load up on products to get on some fast track game plan to reach some level to get a high income? In the last 10 years I’ve been approached by many people who joined other companies and there is always an upfront product purchase amount.
Personally for me, I do not regret a minute of the last 10 years cos it happened as it happened. I am a better person for it. I believe I am a better husband to my wife, a better father to my 3 kids, I’m a nicer less prickly person to be with, I quit smoking and drinking (both of which was causing a great drain in my health and finances), I like myself, I have better self esteem and most important of all, I’m back with God after sort of like “walking away” from Him back in the late 80s. And all that is priceless and I got it all from being an Amway distributor in my organization.
So if Amway is a scam and if my organization is one of those that the Diamonds and Emeralds make money from the CDs, books and functions rather than from product volume and team structure, like all those anti Amway sites say, all I can say is – you believe what you want to believe, I will live the life that Amway and the team I am part of have given to me and which I am thankful to God for.
This is the part which the Amway compensation plan doesn’t show cos there is no monetary value that anyone can put on it. And now that the priceless part is already mine and I’m sure there will be more to come, it’s time for me to get busy on what IS shown on the compensation plan
“Robert”,
Um, you make close to a half a million dollars a year? Really?
I ask because I know people from multiple industries who make this kind of money and, well, they seem to have a different style of communicating than you do…
I don’t know you, so you may be telling the truth…I’m just a little confused. I’m sure you understand.
Could anyone please tell me, whether it’s conscionable/moral for a business to imply that they (the IBO) be 100% committed to making their dreams come true, even if it means ruining a family where children are involved, just to stay inline with the business??? I went to a seminar on the weekend in Canberra, Australia. Over 5,000 attendees at $175.00 per person equates to a very high profit. And the speakers spent most of their times saying buy the CD’s and come to the next BIG seminar at $170.00 a pop. Why?? Well to keep you motivated they would say. WTF?
I went only to support my wife and see what it was all about, her upline tried to get me on board, even after I told her I was earning 7-10k a week, working 10 hours a week. TRUE.
And it went in one ear, out the FKN other.
This business (sales force direct BS) does work. You can make a shit load of money if you understand where IT REALLY COMES FROM. It’s a MOTIVATIONAL BUSINESS.
They said it’s going to be boom time for business (depression/recession)…
1.WTF gave them this logic? If they base this on sales volume as the business is supposedly based, then BS 110%. People are tightening their purses and AMWAYs products are luxuries we can’t afford.
2. I agree the business will build for them. As more IBO’s will join at $100 a pop, more will buy those stupid CD’s at $50 a month, and more people will pay $175.00 a ticket for a weekend seminar.
The diamonds etc will make more money. Those who know the BS will make it all.
I’ll do my best to get my wife out of this before it’s too late.
Robert, there’s a saying in the the computer world I suspect you’re probably familiar with “Garbage In, Garbage Out”. If you’re understandings of something are flawed and you have flawed assumptions, then your conclusions will likely be just (or more) flawed. There is a lot of money in the *Amway* business. There are folk who earn what you earn in a week *every day* – and they don’t have to put in an hour, let alone 10, if they don’t want to. Let me ask you – what happens to your income if you stop that 10hrs/wk? The answer to that is why many folk successful in other fields also pursue an Amway business. Why wouldn’t you “want to be on board”? Purely from a business perspective it makes no sense not to.
Now, lets look at some of your assumption. From checking the meeting brochure, the tickets were $171.00 ex Gst. You claim 5000 attendees, yet the National Convention Centre website says they seat up to 2460. That’s $420,660 income. How many staff where working there, on weekends? I typically see at least 10 event staff plus another 5 to 10 folk from some lighting and sound company. They typically charge 100K+ for such events. 10 staff working overtime is likely to add at least another $40-50,000 in costs. Then you had 2 featured speakers from interstate and 4 international speakers. How much is it to pay their airfares and accomodation? At least another $50,000 gone there – and we haven’t even paid them to speak yet! Throw in all your other expenses – insurance, marketing expenses like pamphlet and ticket production, a marketing video etc etc. How much “profit” is left now? Probably no more than $100,000. And Then you have to consider a similar event happened over in NZ, with much the same expenses – but fewer attendees! It quite possibly *lost* money if it was a standalone event – but it wasn’t. There’s dozens of staff that are employed *full-time* all year around, events all around the world to be paid for, some make money, some lose money. and yes there’s even profit to be made for the company owners who put all this together and take onboard any risk. If you’re making 10K a week you must be a reasonably smart guy, so don’t be naive and superficial in your analysis.
Now, you also say that amway products are expensive and thus the sales “must be BS”. The whole world is in recession, ALL businesses are effected in some way or another. I’m sure what it is your doing is affected somehow. Same applies for amway. Despite this however, Amway sales still GREW 15% to US$8.2billion last year. A significant part of that growth can be traced back to leaders sitting in that room in Canberra. You only need a very very very small percentage of $8.2billion to be making a pretty decent income. If you don’t believe the figures, then go look at the annual reports for companies like Amway Malaysia, which is publicly listed. Check the figures yourself, where’s the BS? As for “boom time”, it’s perfectly logical. If you had a company with 10 sales folk, is it going to sell more or less products, total, with an extra 50 sales folk, assuming there’s a market out there somewhere for the products? It will sell more. Throw in the fact the owners are dedicating more money to marketing and bonuses for those salesfolk, what do you think will happen? In a recession folk are more open to other ways of making some extra dollars. Yes, sales in some luxuries areas will drop, but sales in things like concentrates that can save money can also go up. And folk become more concered about the things that really matter – like health, which means more sales for us. It’s perfectly logical if you think about it, rather than just assume all businesses act the same in a recession. Heck, I’m in the process of launching a new health related business here in Europe, and the advertising market in this industry is increasing at the moment. There’s always money available if you know where to look.
Amway’s bigger than you think, way bigger than you think. Research it thoroughly and understand it and I believe you’ll also agree it’s a brilliant business model. That doesn’t mean it’s something for you, and that’s fine. However your wife has decided it’s something for her. She’s decided she wants to give this a go. Clearly you can afford to spend a few dollars to see if it’s for her. Yet you are not only not supporting her – you’re actively going out of you way to undermine her! Think about this, and think about who is potentially damaging or “ruining the family” more?
As someone who has received the Leadership Bonus from my business in the United States of America, I’d have to disagree with “zhen khim”.
amway is a scam in america. i quit amway at once when i know this. all the diamond and emerald are well brain wash and present to you their life-style. there’s no 4% leadership bonus at all, their money all come from meeting ticket
this is a good website to validate what i tell you
Wow … your comments alone are proof that I shouldn’t allow the site links you gave. They caused you to quit by convincing you to believe something that simply isn’t true. The 4% leadership bonus absolutely exists. There’s lots of money to be made in this business for those willing to work hard and smart.
It seems those two anti-Amway sites scammed you.
1. Amway endorses ROBERT KIYOSAKI’s (author of RICH DAD, POOR DAD) books: True or False?
2. ROBERT KIYOSAKI is aware of this, true or false?
Hi Gary,
It depends what you mean by “endorse”. I know some of Kiyosaki’s books are approved by Amway for use by IBOs in some markets, but I also know they have some concerns with some of the things he writes and some books have not been approved. Personally I wouldn’t call that “endorse”. Whether he is aware of any of Amway’s positions or not I have no idea. Your questions suggest to me you might know (or think you know) the answer?
My friends have just recently joined this with great enthusiasm in December/January. They have been going to the seminars and such every weekend (just about), and also receiving the books and cd’s. They are now trying to get me involved under them, much like they have already been successful with four or five others.
Like many other people though, I am skeptical. They have shown me the “business plan”, their website and Amway’s website. They told me about the initial $200 to start and the $50/year. But they really didn’t touch on the CD’s/Books and receiving other materials. They said that they received a box of initial products for them to look at and see what they are selling on the sites, but I guess that their description has been more-so hurtful than helpful in making me feel comfortable with a decision to join.
I’ve been trying to look up both pros and cons of this business. Like many others, I work a normal Mon-Fri 9-5 job. All I have been told during our first meeting was that you make your business what you are willing to put into it, much like any business you own of course. But I’m reading from many con stories that the head guy in your area (sorry, don’t know all of the abbreviations for all the positions and such) pushes you to do more and work harder. I’ve read MANY other stories like Mo Katya who have been told to change certain aspects of their lives because it hindered their business….. which in turn hinders the businesses of the people above them. Also I’ve read on just about all cons that you will be forced to buy these products, books and cd’s constantly, among other things. Now if this is a business in which you own, and you take home what you make out of it and put into it, obviously, then why the “ramming” of products that you are forced to buy down your throat?
Now I am going to admit that I am ignorant, still, on the full nature of Amway and it’s affiliates. But that is why I am leaving a comment on this subject matter. I came acrossed this site, like many other sites in favor of this MLM. But I also came across many sites against Amway with too many like stories of another. And I know that in order for me to succeed in this environment, I would need to “recruit” others under my business for me to see any profitability. I could easily get people to join, it’s just that my reputation is more important than money. And I wouldn’t want to be responsible for my friends/family losing thousands of dollars just to make a small amount of people above me richer.
If you can answer my questions and concerns that would be greatly appreciated.
antimattr12, thanks for posting and continuing to research. In my opinion probably the only element of “luck” involved in the Amway business is who sponsors you in to it. If it’s someone, or perhaps more importantly, a group who you don’t relate well with then it can be a very unpleasant experience. The funny thing is, someone else can join the exact same person and group and think it’s wonderful! Take for example your statement about folk being “forced to buy these products etc”. The reality is nobody is forced to do anything. In fact, statistics show that in the US half of all people who sign up to give it a try end up never buying a thing. Only about 20% who join every buy cds/attend seminars etc. Upline and groups will however give you advice based on their experiences. It’s up to you whether you decide to act on that advice or not. What can change is how that advice is given. The same person could give advice to me that I need, say, to dress professionally if I want to be taken seriously and I might decide to act on it. The exact same advice might be given to someone else, and they’ll interpret it as “being told how to run my life”.
People are people, what works for some doesn’t work for others. This is one reason why most groups tend to offer some kind of personal development program, to teach people skills and leadership and such things. At any given time though, we’ve all still got stuff to learn, or even more so, to start doing … so we can all make mistakes and upset people. It’s the nature of the business. Another reality though is that if you don’t like what your upline is doing or how the group operates then you don’t have to attend their meetings and don’t have to accept their phone calls. It’s your business, you do as you please.
If you value your reputation, then most people do, then I advise acting professionally! If you think people are recommending you do otherwise (and I think some groups do!) then don’t do it. I would however say that folk normally have good reasons for suggesting the things they suggest. Before rejecting them it might be a good idea to ask what the thinking is behind the suggestion. If they don’t know, find someone who can tell you!
In the meantime, despite what some critics would claim, there’s no secrets in this business. You can try all the products without joining to see if there any good. If you don’t think they are, you can get your money back. If the group your with offers seminars, you can normally attend them, and if you don’t think it was worth the money, get it back. They’ll almost certainly be willing to lend you as many CDs and books as you wish. Check everything out, but do so thoroughly. You might listen to one CD and think it’s rubbish, and not relate to the speaker. That happens. The next speaker could be someone you connect with. You might attend a seminar and think it’s bizarre. That can happen to. But the next time you go you have a little more understanding of why things are done the way they are and can look more at whether it actually achieves anything positive.
In my experience, the more you learn about Amway and the business model, the better it looks. Still though, it comes down to people. With the right people, it’s a blast. With the wrong people, it can be a terrible experience.
Best of luck!
/ibofb
To all the skeptics and the people who had bad experiences with Quixtar/Amway Global. The business is legit and is celebrating 50 plus years of business all over the world. Here’s a fact for all of you skeptics, Quixtar/Amway Global has produced more millionares then any other businesses in the U.S and most countries in the world. Look at our comercials, if we were a scam why would they allow us on TV. We are F.T.C (Federal Trade Commission) approved and we are approved by the Better Business Bereau. The products are price comparable or cheaper then other similar products on the market, plus like our SA8 laundry detergent which is the best on the market you save more money per usage then Tide. Our Artistry skin care and cosmetic line is top 3 in the world, plus in the health and beauty department we have been ranked number 1 in online sales in 2005, 2006, and 2007 by internet retailers top 100. Our vitamin and nutrition line which is Nutrilite is number 1 in the world. Our core line products at our wholesale prices save you money over Wal-Mart. The goal of our business is to help people save money, and if interested make money. For anyone who has failed or quit, it was probably poor leadership from your upline. The first thing I was taught was that there were no quotas in this business, you could do absolutely nothing with no penalty. The second thing I was taught was that I didn’t have to attend any meetings because they aren’t mandatory. The money I invested in my business was up to me. The books and CD’s are voluntary to purchase. I buy the CD’s and the books because no one at work cares about my future and the CD’s are more motivational then my co-workers and my bosses plus the millionares on the CD’s help me to build my business minus their mistakes. At a job I work to make money for my bosses who will always make more money then me, in this business I work to make money for me. I have business partners who are successful attorney’s and doctor’s making 6 to seven figures in their practices, so why would they do this if it was a scam. This is not a pyramid because it’s illegal and I currently work as a law enforcement officer and I study law (So it’s legal). Isn’t a pyramid scheme where the top guy alway’s makes the most money, hmmm sounds like your job (your supervisor makes more money then you, your boss makes more then your supervisor, and the owner makes more then all of you, sounds like a pyramid). In my Quixtar/Amway business I already surpassed my upline sponsor in income because I outwork him, and he encourages me to be more successful, how do your co-workers feel when you’re brand new in your job and you get promoted before them?. Quixtar/Amway Global is a volume based business. I have a downline who hasn’t sponsored anyone but makes $2000 a month (He moves product). Through promoting your products and services the sponsoring happens on its own. Look at it this way, if you start off at zero in this business and sponsor 40 people in your first month and they all do zero, you’re still at zero. It’s a retail/wholesale business, you need to move product to make money period. But like starbucks, McDonalds, etc… if you wanna make more money, expand your business and help others do what you do (move product and make money). I get so irritated by people who say it’s a scam cause you have to purchase their products and buy their CD’s and books and attend their functions (Job mentality -vs- Business mentality). I have a question for all of you, “If you owned a Chevron gas station would you buy gas at Shell just because it’s 10 cents cheaper?” or “If you owned a grocery store would you buy turkey at Costco just because it’s cheaper?” I hope you answered no because if you owned Chevron and bought gas at Shell, what would your customers think about your product. You invest in your own business, you use your own products regardless of how much cheaper somewhere else is (It’s common business sense). Just like your bosses send you to seminars and training, there investing in their business. That’s like our seminars and training, it’s not mandatory but its an investment into your business if you can afford it. If you can’t afford to go to a seminar, I suggest waiting till you move enough products to create enough money in your business so your business pays for your seminar. I can go on and on but the bottom line is this business is legit and it works if you work it right. The 2 to 5 year plan to be financially free they promote is for real if you stay persistant and consistant in this business. What can you say about your job or career. Have you seen any job where you work 5 years even 10 and can fully retire comfortably?. It’s worth 2 to 5 years of hard work to never work a job again.
Changing uplines is still problematic, and the very nature of the business makes it so. It’s easier to change LOA (who you “train and motivate” with) then LOS, unless you want to resign and rejoin in 6 months, but I think there’s still a real problem with folk who join with an upline or organisation that really isn’t a good “fit” for them. There’s no real options and you ended up leaving, usually with a poor view of the business. Heck, I’m a staunch atheist, so I wouldn’t have fit at all well with these evangelical Amway groups! BTW, check out one of my other sites, Amway Wiki and you might be able to find some info on how your former Diamond is doing.
Quixtar (soon to become Amway again btw), is operating similarly around the world now. Everyone can order off the website using their IBO number, which is linked to their sponsor. In the US customers can either order from an IBO’s own personalised website or from the Quixtar website, usually through being registered for access by the IBO. In the past an “unattached” customer who goes to Q* to shop would be referred to a local platinum.
More recently Q* has been advertising their various websites and allowing direct orders. If a customer goes there to shop they’re asked for a referral IBO number if they have one. If they don’t then the volume is all collated and shared amongst all active IBOs. I forget the exact criteria (I’m actually an IBO in Europe and we don’t have this) but it requires you to be more than just a shopper.
ibofightback – You’re right, it’s been ten years since we left Amway, so I am a little rusty. To be completely honest, I did feel we took ownership of our business at the beginning, but the organization our Diamond belonged to unfortunately determined a great deal of how we ran our business. We are responsible people, but Amway doesn’t like it if you want to change uplines (or at least that was true in the old days). If your Diamond recommends doing business a certain way, and if he’s very clear that doing otherwise will hurt your business, you listen. Our feeling was, ‘what do we know?’ We tried to follow all of his suggestions exactly. After a few years, it did feel like we had a long line of bosses.
Once again, it’s not Amway, it’s your upline, but so many of these mega-organizations take over entire lines. Our Diamond joined Dexter Yeager’s group. I don’t know if it has given him long-term success, but he claimed it helped him motivate and retain his organization. We ended up paying thousands of dollars a year as an investment that didn’t pay off. We worked our business 15-30 hours a week, and we had a wide and long downline, but never made it to pearl. Perhaps we were just bad at it and should have left sooner.
I do have a question. How do you make money with the Quixtar program? I saw that you can buy products directly online. Does that cut into your business? Who determines if you become one of the suggested distributors after someone purchases the product?
We enjoyed Amway, but we lost money despite our best efforts. I wouldn’t recommend it to someone trying to start their own business–but that’s just me.
Mo Katya – your comments are a classic example of my point in this post, it’s who you were working with, not Amway. oI’ve never experienced anything remotely like you report, indeed to the contrary.
I’m concerned though with some of the “attitude” you display in your post. You say for example -
We also began to have an issue with the numbers of CDs, books and events we had to go to.
and
no one made us stay up late
Right from the beginning it was made clear to me that the people who succeed at Amway are the people who take “ownership” and treat it like a business. Your language indicates you were treating it like your upline was your boss?
It also sounds like your experience must have been quite limited and a long enough ago for you to have forgotten much. Amway has no such thing as “director level” and never has.
IBO fightback, I was involved for Feb 2000 to Oct 2009 and can tell you the upline doesn’t make you do anything, it’s all optional just like success. talk about manipulative. If you don’t go to everything your not committed, you’ll lose credibility. You won’t be able to lead your team. We spent so much time telling people not to care what the people on the outside thought of us, that we ended up caring far to much what are upline, downline and crossline taught of us.
Integrity & character are very important but it’s a simple biz and doesn’t require all the late nights, functions that the upline makes a $100/head on. Do the math their over head to run a funcition is around $7/ticket the rest per profit for entertaining the masses.
We went platinum a couple times but when you are 2 or 3 legged and most of the volume is down your 1st leg which is really your uplines tap root. You don’t make much money in fact if system cost are aggressive and you are spending $750 to do 300pv you can easily not be profitable.
Great products still use them today. But if you want to make the really big money get people hooked on the “system” because then your profit margin is more like 80-90% vs 3 to 25% plus the 4% leadership bonus.
Oh and by the way don’t forget that once you go diamond you have to maintain 7500pv outside of it to get 4% on all your legs. Doesn’t that sound found, but you’ll just claim your sponsoring people to set the example. Want to know more contact me at ltdteambuilder@gmail.com
Rich, are the numbers you report on system profit sharing and costs for the organisation you were with based based on fact or rumour? They are so far out of kilter with our organization as to be laughable. This isn’t to say they’re not accurate for you, but (1) $7/ticket wouldn’t even cover taxes let alone all overhead. and (2) our profit sharing schedules are nothing like that high. Your orders of magnitude out.
What concerns me most though is your comment about “spending $750 to do 300pv you can easily not be profitable”. Personal PV purchases, outside some limited sample products, are not a business expense and should not be considered one. If you think they are then it brings in to question your motivation for purchasing. If you were purchasing to “make PV” rather than because you wanted the product, then it’s illegitimate demand and if duplicated you’re operating an illegal pyramid. That’s no way to run a business, and no way to run an Amway business – it will, quite predictably, fail.
oakdizzle – people say this all the time, and this is what I always ask – how are the core products “overpriced”? Artistry and Nutrilite are both cheaper than closest competition, as is the LOC range. That covers probably 90% of Amway’s product sales.
I’m part of a system and reached profitability at 1200PV. Anyone at 4000PV and not profitable is simply being irresponsible.
We quit Amway after a few years of trying to make it to director level. Never got close. We had a multi-layered downline, but we never made the numbers we needed to move up. We also began to have an issue with the numbers of CDs, books and events we had to go to. This part isn’t through Amway, but through Dreambuilders or the many other organizations the Diamond (head of lines) join to build their businesses. We resented the number of books and CDs we had to keep in inventory. Why couldn’t the upline, who we found bought these items at a discount, keep the inventory? The line was that we had to “invest in our business” to keep it going. I still don’t buy it. If the Amway plan was so simple, why did we have to do so much to make it work? Amway looks the other way about all this. It keeps them in business, but ultimately it robs the very people they’re supposedly trying to help. We finally had it after it was suggested that we change our religion. As Catholics, we weren’t “Christian” enough to really understand and fulfill our destiny. Our upline Diamond also “suggested” that one of our Jewish downline look at converting. I know that wasn’t Amway, but as I said, Amway knows what’s going on and lets it happen. Most distributors end up as the downline of one of these Diamonds trying to grab extra bucks by joining these organizations to “motivate” the herd.
But it turned out great. After we left Amway, we had thousands of dollars that we got to keep. No more books, tapes, events! We were able to invest it in the stockmarket. My husband and I joined startups. His really took off and we got the money and lifestyle we dreamed of. And no one made us stay up late, go to bed early, commented on how we dressed or wanted us to believe differently than we already did.
Amway taught us a lot — be wary of wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Hello everyone,
I’m a part-time Quixtar/Amway IBO and also own a Internet business. Quixtar/Amway is a legit mlm business but to succeed in it is very hard. Many people in the business do not “totally” understand that business is mostly about money and profit. If you are a Quixtar IBO making $1,000 a month but you are spending $2,000 a month buying their overpriced core products, you will not be in business for long. This is what happens to many people in the business, I heard of IBOs at the 4,000 pv level quitting because they are not making profit.
I’m a person that is very open minded but I’m also a critical thinker and very independent. While in the biz, I studied my upline and other IBOs very closely. A few things that I noticed about the active Quixtar IBOs is that they believed in the system way too much that they don’t see the flaws. It’s almost like they are brainwashed (meant this in a nice way). In order to build a successful business, you first need to build it on faith because you are not going to see results right away. You need to be persistence, committed and very patient…and if you are only going to invest less than 20 hours per a week in the biz. You are better off quitting because you will most likely fail. Then again, any true business owners know that failing is a good thing in business because that means you are one step closer to succeeding!