I was having a discussion about Amway products and to my surprise the other party cited “JoeCool’s website” as evidence that Amway’s products were overpriced and not competitive – in other words, a scam. JoeCool is of course a well known anti-Amway zealot. So I thought I’d have a look at JoeCool’s price comparisons, and he was his usual dishonest self. This is JoeCool’s comparisons -
The first thing I noticed was that only two of the eight products he did “price comparisons” on were even Amway products! The rest were made by 3rd party companies, not Amway. Third party products (XS is an exception) are primarily for the benefit of Amway members, not for selling at retail price. And what prices does he compare it with? Costco members price. Costco membership is $50/yr. Amway membership? $50/yr.
Wouldn’t an honest comparison thus be Costco members price vs Amway members price?
And let’s look what else he does -
Smart menu Pasta 12 – 16 oz. Bags = $24.99
Golden Grain Pasta 12 16oz. Boxes = $8.99 (Costco)
I looked up the Amway Global website. The Smart menu Organic Pasta appears to have gone up in price – it’s $28.20 at full price, $26.04 at members price. But wait … it doesn’t just say “Pasta” … it says “Organic Pasta“. Organic pasta normally costs more doesn’t it? Indeed it does -
Tinkyada Organic Pasta 12 16oz Bags = $42.99 (Costco)
or here’s another from Costco-
Da Vinci Organic Bow Tie Pasta 12 16oz Bages = $27.99 (Costco)
The Amway sourced Organic Pasta is CHEAPER!
The progresso soup prices I was unable to find on Costco, but I did discover that there’s a wide, wide variety of types of progresso soup, and they differ in quality and price. Which ones was JoeCool checking?
Amway Global sells the “traditional” style, for $2.30/ 19oz can
Bythecase.net has the EXACT same product for $2.99/ 19oz can
Walgreen’s has the EXACT same product for $3.00/19oz can
The Amway sourced Progresso Traditional Soup is CHEAPER!
Maybe CostCo had a batch at a good price. It happens. Nevertheless it’s clear that Amway’s pricing is clearly at worst in line with competitors.
The tuna I couldn’t find JoeCool’s prices on either the Amway site or the Costco site. Amway does have a Smart Menu Albacore Tuna product, but as one would expect for Albacore Solid White Tuna, it’s quite expensive at $1.84/6oz can. Generic chunk tuna is usually a lot cheaper.
Smart Menu Albacore Solid White Tuna – $1.84/6oz
Bythecase.net has Albacore Solid White Tuna – $1.95/6oz
Indeed, I couldn’t find ANY solid white tuna product cheaper than Amway was selling it. I’m sure someone probably is, somewhere. But I couldn’t find it.
The Amway sourced Albacore Solid White Tuna is CHEAPER!
Shall we keep going?
Meadowbrook bath tissue 48 rolls $29.99
Kirkland bath tissue 36 rolls $11.99 (Costco)
It took me a while to find, but what JoeCool seems to have picked from the Amway catalogue was apparently the Meadowbrook Ultra Premium bathroom tissue. It’s the only48 roll pack of Meadowbrook Amway sells, and it’s $35.52, not $29.99. I’m starting to question whether JoeCool is actually using an old catalogue and old prices … did he really just happen to have this catalogue fall out on his desk? One wonders …
Anyway, the Meadowbrook product is clearly some kind of “gold standard” of toilet paper and the Kirkland variety JoeCool compares with is not. Hang on …. did you just click on that link? The one to Kirkland Signature Bath Tissue 36 rolls on Costco.com? The one JoeCool claims is $11.99 … but CostCo says is $22.61???
It seems it’s not just the Amway prices JoeCool can’t get right. Is he just making some of these numbers up? Let’s do a proper comparison -
Kleenex Cottonelle Bath Tissue 20 rolls – 2ply 505 sheet $25.76 (Amway)
Kirkland Signature Bath Tissue 36 rolls - 2ply 425 sheet $22.64 (Costco)
See joe, you could have used the real pricing – CostCo wins! If they’re the same quality. I’ll let other’s bottoms decide. In the meantime, let’s see what other companies sell the name-brand Kleenex bath tissue for.
Staples.com – Kleenex Cottonelle Bath Tissue 20 rolls – 2ply 505 sheet $1.36/roll
ByOnlineNow – Kleenex Cottonelle Bath Tissue 20 rolls – 2ply 505 sheet $1.16/roll
AmwayGlobal.com – Kleenex Cottonelle Bath Tissue 20 rolls – 2ply 505 sheet $1.29/roll
So the Amway product is 5.1% cheaper per roll than Staples, and 11% more expensive per roll than ByOnelineNow. It’s interesting to note though, that with ByOnlineNow you need to order at least 2 cartons to get that price. So … Amway IBOs … feel free to buy your Kleenex toilet paper at ByOnlineNow until you hit the 12% volume discount bracket … then you’d be better off buying from Amway!
So what’s left? Vitamins, washing powder, and energy drinks. I’m going to leave Vitamins until last, because what JoeCool does there is just so blatantly dishonest as to be simply jaw-dropping. How about washing powder? Unfortunately the Kirkland product he mentions is apparently not available online so I’ve been unable to find any information about it, such as ingredients, usage rates etc. SA8 is one product that does tend be more expensive than most competitors, but that’s because it’s the best and is better for you. I also recommend this great video from the Amway 50th expo with one of Amway’s SA8 scientists.
So, to drinks ….
XS Sports drinks 24 16 oz bottles = $30.00
Gatorade 24 20oz bottles = $15.95 (at Costco)
There is no XS sports drink. JoeCool is probably his usual out-of-date self. There’s a Nutrilite Sports Drink – it’s $30 at retail, maybe that’s what he meant? But we’re comparing Amway members price with CostCo members prices -
Nutrilite Sports Drink 24 16oz bottles = $22.56
Gatorade 24 20oz bottles = $16.54
The Gatorade from CostCo is clearly cheaper. But are they the same? The Nutrilite product has antioxidants and B-vitamins, with no artificial colours/flavours/preservatives. Gatorade has no B-vitamins or antioxidants and artificial colouring. Which is better? Are they even similar enough to compare? You decide. Next …
XS energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $23.99
Red Bull 8 oz (case of 24) $31.30 (at Costco)
XS Energy drinks are $20.40 for 12 8.4 oz cans at members price, and the Costco website says their Red Bull goes for $38.19 for 24 8.4oz cans at members price.
XS Energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $20.40 ($1.70/can)
Red Bull 8.4 oz (case of 24) = $38.19 ($1.59/can) at CostCo
So the Red Bull is slightly cheaper. But again – are they the same product? Red Bull has 110 calories, with 27 grams of sugar. XS is sugar free, packed with vitamins and adaptogenic herbs. Wouldn’t Red Bull Sugar Free be the more apt comparison? It still doesn’t have anywhere near the nutrient content of XS, but at least they’re both sugar free.
XS Energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $0.20/oz)
Red Bull Sugar Free 12 oz (case of 24) = $0.18/oz) at CostCo
If you like Red Bull, and don’t care about the nutritional content, CostCo is cheaper. If on the other hand you think Red Bull tastes awful, like I do, then you might want consider one of the 14 different flavours of XS Energy Drink.
Which brings us to the vitamins …..
Double X (31 day supply) $78.05
Multi Vitamins (3 month supply) $24.80 (At Costco)
I’m not sure which multi-vitamins JoeCool priced at Costco. They have a bewildering array of different ones. I’m guessing it might be something like Centrum Performance, which is $19.99 for 150 tablets, so that would be close to $24.80 for 3 months. Now, the Amway Global member’s price for a 31 day supply of Double X is $44.84. The non-members price is $68.99, so even ignoring the fact we’re doing a fair Costco members price<->Amway members price comparison, JoeCool is out by nearly ten bucks.
But that’s not what’s shocking about JoeCool’s clear dishonesty here. Double X is Nutrilite’s flagship product. It contains 20+ organic plant concentrates as well as being fortified with other essential vitamins and minerals. It’s a true “premium” product. Comparing it with an off the shelf multivitamin is like comparing a Ferrari with a bicycle. They’re both means of transport, but they’re not even close to similar.
The funny thing is, Amway sells a multivitamin bicycle as well. It’s called Nutrilite Daily. A basic multi-vitamin tablet, including organic plant concentrates, to take once a day. Members price is $7.35 for a 3 month supply. At full price it’s $11.30. This is significantly cheaper than whatever brand JoeCool was quoting.
Nutrilite Daily (3 month supply) $7.35
Multi Vitamins (3 month supply) $24.80 (At Costco)
Why would you pick the Nutrilite Double X premium product for a price comparison when there’s a more mainstream “Daily” available that as much closer to the product you’re trying to compare it with? Maybe excuses can be made for the other products. Perhaps JoeCool doesn’t know much about tuna and figures it’s all the same. Maybe he doesn’t care whether it’s cheap soup or good quality soup. Perhaps he thinks organic products are a waste of money, and he didn’t even realise CostCo sold them. Excuses can be made. But JoeCool claims he was an Amway IBO and he built a business up to the 4000PV level. There’s no way he doesn’t know about Nutrilite Daily, one of Amway’s best selling products. Why didn’t he compare Daily with the Costco product, insteading picking one of the most expensive products Amway sells?
The only reason I can think of is because he is deliberately trying to deceive people.
Normally I just ignore his dishonest rantings, but this stuff affects people. I had someone I had never discussed Amway with before quote JoeCool’s blog post as “proof” that Amway’s products are over-priced. Yet that post is full of dishonesty. Frankly, I’m suspicious of the whole basis for it. Does anyone really believe that the most prolific anti-Amway blogger on the internet would just “happen” to have an Amway catalogue fall on his desk?
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IBOFB, your price comparison is based on your internet searches while my price comparison was done by actually walking down the aisles at my local costco.
No XS sports drinks?
http://www.iboai.com/Quixtar-Info-News-XSClearlySugarFreeOrange.asp
Quixtar XS Sports Nutrition – Buy XS Energy Sports Drinks from
When you push your body to perform your body pushes back. … Drink XS Sports Drinks before physical activity to promote adequate hydration during your workout.
http://www.quixtarxs.com
Quality is subjective. Most people don’t care about anything but the prices, especially in a struggling economy. If you, IBOFB weren’t so busy pushing your agenda, you would see that.
No JoeCool, there is no XS sports drink. That’s old.
Quality is subjective, but you haven’t even tried to get close in matching products, and with the multi-vitamins you went out of your way to avoid a cheaper product from Nutrilite.
I mentioned maybe Costco had some specials on, so that’s how you got your pricing – guess what … Amway, and Amway IBOs, have specials too. But you compared Amway list price with Costo specials didn’t you?
Your choice of Double X instead of Daily shows what your agenda actually was, and it had nothing to do with doing an honest price comparison.
It’s too bad when people like JoeCool write this kind of deceptive stuff. However, I find it hard to believe that anybody who has a brain takes guys like that seriously.
When I do cost comparisons, I mainly do the Amway-exclusive products that are concentrated and that can be compared to similar items that are bought in the store that can be compared on a per-use basis. Some examples include Pursue Disinfectant Cleaner against Lysol All-Purpose Cleaner, Dish Drops Automatic Dishwasher Detergent against Cascade Complete, and Glister Multi-Action Oral Rinse against Scope Mouthwash. These items, when compared on a per-use basis, show substantial savings over store-bought products.
When the Amway items are used correctly and are included in a $75.00 order that has free shipping, there is simply no comparison.
Besides, shopping at Wal-Mart, Sam’Club, or Costco doesn’t offer the opportunity to be in business for yourself, and the chance for financial independence.
Thanks for the update IBOFB! It continues to amaze me what he writes. To think that anyone would take him seriously is even more amazing. That guy seriously needs a checkup from the neck up.
joecool,
Don’t you find it “odd” that you would use Google, and pick the first two websites which support your OLD information, rather than going to the MAIN, CURRENT, and ACCURATE source, like a Corporation’s website, regarding products and pricing?
And the fact that you back up your claim like this, leaving a comment, even AFTER ibofightback clearly says:
“There is no XS sports drink. JoeCool is probably his usual out-of-date self. There’s a Nutrilite Sports Drink – it’s $30 at retail, maybe that’s what he meant?”
is so very telling.
joecool’s information is ONLY from 2004, that’s ONLY 5 years old!
I’ve often heard Amway sales reps touting the ability of Amway folks to make lots of money. So much so they actually can retire on the work of those they sponsor. They’ve even said that their kids can actually inherit their retirement.
If this is true it would appear the only way a company can sustain itself on this business model is to inflate the price of their product.
At some point you get so many people living off other people’s earnings and not doing a lick of work that you create a great welfare system.
It’s the same reason social security is having such a hard time. Too few workers supporting too many retirees.
The “only” way they could sustain itself is to inflate the price of their product? “inflate” compared to what? The “residual” type income payouts for Amway are around 6% of revenues. You could do those payouts by oh, decreasing other expenses by 6% … like maybe not having retail stores? By not doing as much advertising as the competitors? Take away the 6% and you have taken away incentives to the sales force …. so you’d need to spend that, and probably more, on other methods for attracting business.
I suspect the problem is you’ve had little more than a quick overview of the model and haven’t researched it in depth and are misunderstanding how the bonuses are calculated and paid out.
Norris,
Currently I personally get residual money for a product/service I provided (in another industry outside Amway) 24 years ago. If I were to die today, my estate would continue to receive those residuals. However, those residuals will only keep coming if there continues to be purchasers of that product/service.
If people stop watching/renting/buying that movie, the residuals will stop.
So just to clarify with Amway Business, an estate does not get money if the flow of product stops, just like a living IBO does not get money if the flow of product stops.
Bonus money is driven by the CURRENT sales of products.
JoeCool, your website is retarded, just from the beginning you compare our energy drinks to gatorade, what the hell? they are not at all the same energy drinks are at least 2 dollars each of course gatorade is cheaper. So you say that things are cheaper at stores. Well duh, lets compare your saving to the check they send me each month, and we will see who saved more money buying there stuff. I would rather not waste any more time then i have already with people as dumb as you, and i feel bad for anyone who does listen to you. Good luck in what ever it is you do, apparently talking bad about corporations is where you spend your time. No wonder you were not successful.
There is a definite distinction to how people live who pursue quality and actually do their homework. Where I am in sales and see it everyday, just because it is a bad economy doesn’t mean people who buy quality are going cheap. There is a phrase out their that says “you get what you pay for”. Does this mean that those who pay $60 for a bottle of wine should be smart and pay $3 for the wine. Could be different brands and that could constitute cost variations. How long it was distilled, how long did it set or cure. In construction, you go cheap you get cheap.
The simple issue that I have with people like you JoeCool or whatever your name is…is that you people who are so against Amway say that they keep pushing the agenda. The only people I see pushing any agenda is you. I could only imagine what you could do with your time if you used it constructively. Coming from someone who is neutral and has other businesses by the way.
Just an observation….
It’s interesting how people who are already successful in whatever else they do always have positive things to say about the Amway business and products, because they are objective, and see things how they are (not pushing an agenda). Some may get involved, some won’t. That’s not the point. They see it as it is, and it’s impossible to be negative about it when you look at it that way.
Contrast that with people who are unsuccessful. They look at things with a “what’s the catch” mindset, and so are constantly trying to find one, even with something as great as Amway, where there isn’t one. They have insecurities about themselves and their past experiences, always feel like they have something to prove, regrets about bad decisions made in the past, as IBOFB mentioned, that JoeCool would have had a downline Platinum if he hadn’t quit when he did. They will try to twist the facts, or even just make things up, to try and justify their own non-success, and convince people (not least of all themselves) of things that just aren’t true.
I once heard an Emerald who has been around the business for a very long time say “I’ve never had a negative reaction from someone who is successful in what they currently do.” I highly doubt anyone has. That’s not to say they will all get in and go Diamond. If they aren’t “looking” for something, don’t have big dreams and goals, etc., they probably won’t, but they are secure enough in themselves to be objective and evaluate it on the facts, and only have positive things to say because that is the reality of it. Insecurities will prevent people from seeing it that way.
ibofightback, its nice to hear sensible information after so long of hearing the nay sayers and thier wild tangents. I have delt with Gina, rlaurens, joe cool and maximum on various issues on joe’s blog and it is been a head spin. good job here on the costco issue.
Levi,
Those people whom you mention, particularly the owner of that blog have no interest in having a sane, rational conversation.
Their MO is that of an Internet troll.
“In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Having learned their true intentions, I no longer waste my time, knowing that this is all a sick game to them.
Yea.. honestly.. Joecool … what your comparing… isn’t all that accurate.
you forgot one super big factor.. its not just pricing.. you have to compare value.. i mean that like getting all pissy because a Bentley cost more then a Kia..
i can go soooooo deep into convo to support the FACTS .. but i will give you just one example..Nutrilite Twist tubes. in comparison one tube is equivalent to 6.4 bottles of it high end competition ( Gatoraid/ Sports Twist Tube…and Vitamin Water/ Immunity, Joint, and Antioxidant Twist Tube) that retails for about $2 a bottle.. so that means one Twist Tube is valued at $12 each with 20 tubes in box that makes a box worth $240.. AND IT ONLY COST $10.99.. so honestly…. with the Nutrilite products its a win win.. your getting a way better price and and much higher quality product.. so the Value surpasses its competition.. hey its a fact you pay for what you get.. but before you go bashing .. i suggest you really do your research and know what your getting.. annnnnny questions feel free to ask.
hello
from the start i want to say that i’m from Romania, so my english isn’t so good so i appologise for that.
i discover this site a few days ago and i must say that i relate with the way the discussions goes. Compared to other sites or forums this a lot more proffesional.
i did my studies in Sport Academy and i’m specially preocupated in health.
what i want to say regarding this subject of nutition and price is that, in my opinion, the ultimate concern or the bottom of the line is our health. So we need quality.
Let’s say that Amway nutrition products are more expensive than any other product. i know this is not true but let’s play this game. i will make a few points:
1. i know someone who is in the bussines and she is a biolog scientist. if we take only the Vitamin C ( essential vitamin by the way ): in other products than Amway the vitamin C is clear because it’s made by industrial methods. In Amway products Vitamin C it’s extracted by cold pressing. this method allows also the fitonutrients to be a part of the final product. This is a big difference for our health.
2. Nutrilite is the only company in the world that has certified organic farms. i don’t want to take supplimets from some company that has acres of farms next to the highway where all the toxic gases from cars are laying down on the plants.
the point is that i will buy something that can help me to keep my healt i dont care how expensive it is.
when i see prodocts that are really cheap i wonder if the producer spend any monay in quality reseach for the products.
Nutrilite meets o lot more quality standards that are even necesary for a farmaceutical company. 500+ spcialists cost money. and everything is for our health and our bussiness. quality will always build a good, strong bussiness. no wonder this company is still growing after 50 years.
thankyou and good luck to you all
For all of you “Negative Nellies” out there…you OBVIOUSLY don’t get it…AMWAY/Amway Global is awesome people, awesome product and awesome awesome income that allowes me to do what I do best…Be a MOM. When you are ready for a true dose of reality, look me up, I love to share a GREAT opportunity with you…
IBOFB I am glad to see your response to the bogus “comps”
Thanks for pointing out some of the misleading errors in his post. I, too, came across those and could see his pricing and comparisons were inaccurate.
Unfortunately, some people will believe what they read instead of checking the facts. Many people don’t realize that there are 2 prices for Amway. Retail and Wholesale. He should have listed the wholesale price as a fair comparison. But, clearly he’s not ‘fair’ in much of what he touts.
He really is an internet troll.
My question is, who the hell has that much time?
it is useful to eat nutritonal healthey amway?
That’s a pretty broad question senny! It depends on what your current lifestyle and diet is like, and every person is different. Some Amway products may be good and useful for some people, and others not, and vice versa.
This guy must be getting paid by a competitor or someone he knows got very successful using the Amway opportunity. Other than that, nobody will take as much time to go into so much detail trying to discredit such an amazing company for no reason. HE IS GETTING PAID. Can I get his contact info ? I would love to meet him and look at his credentials and investigate him. My email address is rajatrini@gmail.com. I would love to get his.
Actually it ends up he had several downline when he quit, and apparently one of them went on and qualified platinum! Basic human psychology is that he will then have to go out of his way to justify his decision to quit.
This forum is awesome. I enjoyed reading the posts in response to JoeCools’s biased post. Regardless of the prices, when you understand success principles, you pay the price and don’t count the cost. You don’t become wealthy by saving money but my making money. I think what’s more important than proving his comment on Amway’s prices incredible is the fact that IBOs come together and realize how awesome the opportunity is. I’m not sure if you guys are only IBOs or are also part of a business team. I myself am a part of LTD (Leadership Team Development) which accounts for the majority of Amway’s revenue. Good job on the response posts. As an addition, if he was a 4000, I’m sure his upline didn’t mind him quitting as his personals were transferred upline. I’m at the 4000pv level myself. It’s funny how someone would wait until they go 4000 to complain about the pricing. He probably didn’t do his volume and never got payed. It could be why he found it expensive. Take care guys.
Hi DC, thanks for the comments, but be careful with the hyperbole. From what I hear LTD is a great and growing team, but there’s no way in the world it accounts for “the majority of Amway’s revenue”. LTD doesn’t extend much out of North America, and the US only accounts for less than 1/8th of Amway’s volume. Within the US there are many teams larger than LTD. That’s not meant in anyway to diminish LTD, just to rein in any false claims, which don’t help anyone, least of all you, in the long run.