Back in 2007, Amway Global (then Quixtar) launched Quixtar University. I’m not sure which other markets have done similar, but Amway Australia and New Zealand this month launched e-Learning courses on Amway University. To quote the site –
Amway Learning is a structured approach designed to help you build your knowledge in areas relevant to today’s market place. You may choose to undertake a selected number of business & product subjects and achieve a certificate to reaffirm your knowledge, or for your own personal interest and information.
One of the strengths and at same times weaknesses of the network marketing model is that at any given time a large number, indeed perhaps a majority, of people representing a company such as Amway are actually new and inexperienced. The end result of this is it’s very easy for them to do or say the wrong thing. It’s been my suggestion for sometime that Amway should implement a certification program, and that only ABOs who have undertaken some basic training are allowed to “show the plan” and sponsor people. Until then if they want to expand their networks they have to be accompanied by a certified upline.
Amway hasn’t gone that far yet, but with this new e-Learning course, ABOs will actually receive an official Amway Certificate. Level 1 is called Amway Foundations Certificate and comprises seven separate courses –
- Welcome to Amway
- Health & Wellness
- Home Care
- Body & Beauty
- Home Technology
- Business Fundamentals
- Making Money Through Retail
A level 2 certificate, Amway Business Builder Certificate, is due to launch later in 2009 and covers business building techniques, and more indepth knowledge of the Amway Sales & Marketing Plan and the Health & Beauty areas.
This is a welcome development, though it’s going to be interesting to see how “business building techniques” is implemented, as currently it’s common for different Amway groups to have different “business building techniques”.
Well Done M8′, Press-0n. Diamond Dood4Lyf’A’
Press-on Team. Amway And Amway Australia Pty Ltd, was and is the world’s most secure, comprehensive, Extreamily satisfying And rewarding business for your whole family/Generation’s & Lifestyle offering International 0pportunity worldwide, our life’s record proove my point, happy 53, and Amway Australia, Happy Birthday, many happy return’s And i am looking forward to our next 40 year’s in Australia, 2011′. BE IN IT’ FOR LYF’S, IN ALL YOU SAY’A’
Gr8. M8′
Oneworld’, Hip, Diamond dood’
WellDone Team, Press-on.
Nirp’A’ Pty ltd
thanks guys for all your comments i think its entirely upto every individual IBO to understand their business and destiny god bless u all
I don’t feel anything dumb about it. Don’t want to discuss any further on this.
Peter, Good post. I shall also request u to read my comments carefully once again. I am not saying Amway should know what is the value of ur profit or loss(absolute value). I am saying Amway should know “Yes. I am in Profit” or “No. I am not in profit” showing all possible pointers to the ABO on calculating the profitability after 6 months of joining the Business. This calculation is done by the ABO independently of Upline’s help or LOS help, with or without an Accountant and shouldn’t or need not be disclosed to Amway.
If Amway gets a response as “Yes. I am in profit after 6 months from starting the Business” then no issues.
If Amway gets a response as “No. I am not in profit” then Amway has to or should take an ethical stand to RECOMMEND the ABO not to invest further in the areas which hampers profitability & concentrate on certain areas(discussing with their upline) to increase profitability. If they still want to continue with what they are doing Amway or LOS has no responsibility for their actions. This shall be more Upfront, Black & White and responsible behaviour from Amway.
Sorry, I still think this is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard, from no matter which direction I look at it from.
hello everyone
again i must scuse myself for my english but im from eastern Europe.
i did read with great interest the comments so far about the systems, meetings, cd’s, etc. it is great becose i read different oppinions. i dont want to stay on nobody’s side i just want to tell you a point of view.
i read a comment about the fact that Amway should check your profits after 6 months and see if you sould buy more cd’s or go to the meetings or lowing your costs with system’s costs.
I WILL START WITH THE AFFIRMATION THAT WE ARE INDEPENDENT BUSSINESS OWNERS ORE AT LEAST WE THINK LIKE ONE. THIS IS VERRY IMPORTANT.
Let’s say that you want a big bussiness and also you want your bussines to stay big once it grows big. that means you have to think long term. and i’m not reffering only to Amway bussines, but any bussiness in general.
i heard once that if you want to learn enything in life there are only two ways to do that: trial and error, or learnig from others experience. now, you have to choose one of this no matter what.
it is verry likely that when you start your first bussiness (other than the partnership with Amway), if you’re and average person with a job the you probably don’t have the monay to start and you have to borrow a lot from the bank. After that the bank will own your house ( your spouse, your car, your kids and everything you have .. just joking). and you will not work for your dreams anymore but for the nightmare of losing your house.
this kind of bussiness is build ussualy ( except francising ) on trial and error, or based on your experience. if you are succesfull with this kind of busssiness i bet that for the majority of bussiness owners it took more than 6 months to break even with the earnings vs the costs. i bet it takes at lest one or two years to make enaugh proffit to get rid of the bank problem. then if you are succesfull probably you created already a system for your bussiness tha finally works
When you want to start the partnership with Amway it’s still your bussiness but you have a good partner witch is better that having no one. And Amway , as your partner, gives you a bussiness plan, rules and a code of ethics to guide you.
if you would have only this, then would be a lot better than having anything. and, by the way, you don’t have to morgage your house because it is verry cheap to buy the right for the bussiness.
at this point you have the same 2 options: trial and error or other people’s experience. other people’s experience is a lot cheaper, it saves you a lot of time and is all availible in a system.
THIS IS A BUSSINESS OF DUPLICATION.
even of you are good choosing trial and error and you dont make mistakes, IS NOT DUPLICATABLE, and you still have to put your experience on sort of a system so your parners will do the same good things like you did.
Other people’s experience available on any kind of materrials is always duplicatable.
I don,t think Amway should check my proffits anytime coz it’s my bussiness and if i buy system materials for 10 years and im not in proffit,( as long as I respect Amway’s code of ethics) is only my problem.
Actually i did just that. For 10 years I bought cd’s from my LOS system, recomended books ( two are written by Donald Trump ), i went to seminars and listen to succesfull people. i didn,t make any proffit with my partnership with Amway ( becouse i didn’t show the plan and have customers ) but i know a lot, lot more about a lot of staff regarding bussiness,financial education, life, relationnships, having a dream and pursue it, etc. all for few dollars a month. isn’t this worth it? for me it is. and nobody in my line of sponsorship forced me to be on the system. if they would have done that maybe i wouldn’t be arround. but fortunally they din’t so i am.
good luck to you all
IBOFB,
What exactly is the major difference between your system and BWW (or any other system)? Can you eloberate more..Because from talks on various forums and on your site as well..I can only judge that various system are not much different from each other at macro level. Micro level yes they are, even within the system they have different ways the big pins carry their meetings etc.
Don’t you have CDs?
Don’t you have books?
Don’t you have open (weekly) meetings?
Don’t you have regional seminars?
Don’t diamonds in your system makes money of all these tools?
Aren’t IBO encouraged to buy more of these tools in your system?
Aren’t IBOs expected to attend all meeting, buy regular CDs and books?
passed, what you’ve just described pretty much covers *any* education system, not just Amway “systems”. The differences may be in what you call the “micro” level, and more in attitudes. Some groups reportedly “exile” you if you’re not “on system”. Some groups consider people who quit or are not interested as “losers”. Some groups, as per this post on AmwayTalk have lots of extra charges for meetings, and provide less of a service. I’m told some groups promote buying 2 or more CDs a week, others 1 a week. Some groups heavily promote or encourge particular religious and/or political philosophies, others do not address those issues at all. Then there’s strategy differences, some groups promote large amounts of width first, others prefer an earlier focus on depth. Some groups promote having customers, some groups ignore it, or in the past even recommended against it.
IBOFB,
In your LOA, is a new IBO who expresses interest in building a “big” business, encouraged to attend meetings, listen to CDs, read books, etc., from the get go?
And is their sponsor encouraged to help them start sponsoring as soon as possible?
of course, that or similar is pretty much standard practice when starting any business. Learn what to do, get out and do it.
IBOFB:
I am not calling you anything…and liar not at all..I am proud of you that you have such a nice place where we can share our experiences. But while this remains fact, I think I have the right to differ in my views.
The only system I have experience is BWW and I always use that as reference whenever I talk about system. My post also does not have just the negative aspects of the system (BWW), but also positive aspects of it.
What I want to convey is having system in amway business is great, as far as you can control the cost associated with being part of it. As an individual business you have to judge the ROI and thats where systems tries to throw you off balance if you are not building business on fast track while being an active part of the it. It is very easy spending lot of money on stuff, which you might not even be using, just because you got charged up after listening that exciting speech from a dynamic leader. Been there, done that..thats what I can say.
Regarding customer volume, in BWW one of the core is to have 50PV customer volume every month…but thats because of legal requirement and in the list that takes the least priority..first 3 is always: listening the CDs, reading the books and 100% product use…all directly related with adding to the bottom line of the system and uplines.
In all BWW meeting the first goals for new IBOs are to Order products and listen CDs. No one ever tells new IBO that you should learn about how to create 10 regular customers. Whereas reinvesting money in system, earned by bonuses and customer volumes, is always mentioned..then the stories about going hungry for days but not missing any standing order or meetings. Those are not showing a person how to build business, but more about how to support system.
I am sure different systems have different ways of doing things, but plus or minus, all systems do work on similar lines. Because the basis of any system, is not just to teach IBOs how to do business, but ALSO to make some good money for the people managing the system. After all IT IS A BUSINESS IN ITSELF.
passed, that’s kind of my point – you ARE calling me a liar, but I don’t expect you even realise it. You’ve talked about your experience with one system in such a way as that it reads you’re making the claim about ALL Amway affiliated systems. Since I’ve already stated something operates differently in the system I work with, that means we’re it odds. By stating something about all systems, you’re clearly stating it about “my” system as well. So I’m either wrong, or you’re wrong. So never say “the system”. Say “the BWW system” or “the system I work with” or whatever. There is not “the” system.
This isn’t a theoretical problem. I’ve had prospects tell me that we operate certain ways because of what they’ve read on the internet about “the system”.
Jeffrey,
Thanks for modifying the way you talk about “systems”. That has really been my biggest issue with you. I know that we’re really on the same side and are working to make this business better for everyone!
IBOFB,
I have a question: Does the LOA to which you are affiliated have a set of guidelines, similar to what some LOAs call CORE?
If so, do these guidelines, include things such as attending meetings, listening to audios, reading books, plugging in to a communication system (either voicemail, web, or both)?
If so, does your LOA teach/train that in order to build a large organization in the world Amway, and keep it together, that one would need to follow such guidelines?
Bridgett asked …
I have a question: Does the LOA to which you are affiliated have a set of guidelines, similar to what some LOAs call CORE?
Yup, it’s called Core
If so, do these guidelines, include things such as attending meetings, listening to audios, reading books, plugging in to a communication system (either voicemail, web, or both)?
Yes, though I don’t think the latter is part of “core” anywhere. I’d also note that, contrary to claims above, it also includes “have customers”.
If so, does your LOA teach/train that in order to build a large organization in the world Amway, and keep it together, that one would need to follow such guidelines?
No, there is no “need to”. What is taught is that statistics indicate that people doing these things overwhelming get certain results. Not doing them does not mean you will not get results, just that the results are less predictable.
Jeffrey – we have the same goal.
Truce. OK? I’ll stop saying “all” systems. If we chat about systems again, I’ll say, “From my experience with my LOS’s system…” All I want is for the people that get into the business to have a good experience, whether they chose to build it big or not.
Network 21 has (IMO) it’s flaws too, but yes I do believe I’m lucky to be associated with it. I also don’t believe it’s the only system running things correctly.
I know you’re not “trying to fight” with me, but you have to realise that every time you, or someone else, says “the systems operate like this” etc etc, and it’s contrary to what I’ve said my experience is, then you’re implicitly calling me a liar, whether you mean to or not.
I do only have experience with my upline’s system that goes all the way up to Dexter Yager. I speak from my own experience. If Network 21 is everything you say it is, then you are a lucky guy to be associated with it, and Jim and Nancy Dornan are to be praised for running it correctly. I just feel bad for new people that get in the same LOS that I am in because the system that is currently in place is not conducive to getting a good start and building a profitable business. That is why I left the system and am currently working on my own presentation and training materials for accreditation. David, I’m not trying to fight with you.
I almost forgot: lawyers, too.
I’m not calling you a liar. I only call politicians liars.
passed, the problem with comments like yours and Jeffrey’s is that there is a logical conclusion that can be made – either (a) you are wrong or (b) You’re calling me a liar.
How are these a logical conclusions? Because many (heck most) of the things you and Jeffrey claim are simply not my experience with the system I work with, and I’ve said that many times, even on this very comment thread. So either you’re wrong to say “the systems”, ie all the multitude of different systems, do these things, or you are calling me a liar.
I don’t appreciate being called a liar.
What I expect is happening with you is the exact same thing as with Jeffrey. You have no idea how big Amway is and what a small part of it you have experienced. You actually have no idea how most Amway systems operate. In fact you’ve probably only had experience with one or two.
On what basis do you feel qualified to be able to make sweeping judgements and claims about “systems” you have zero knowledge and experience with?
And on what basis do you feel qualified to make them when on this very thread, I’ve already pointed out that some of the things you’re claiming simply aren’t true?
Is it really your intention to call me a liar, or did you just not think through your post properly?
passed, I couldn’t have said it better myself. An excellent overview.
There are some pros and cons of systems in Amway:
Pros:
—-
– They help keep IBOs motivated to do something after joining the business
– They provide a positive environment where IBOs can learn from each other
– They provide platform for IBOs to learn about products, services and other new sutff which they might now be using right now
– They help the team to gel together so that success of others can motivate you to take actions
– They spare leaders from spending time to each individual
– They help IBOs take 3rd party approach in conveying the message then direct communication is not possible
– They help maintain and grow long distance businesses as everyone gets the same teaching
– They give a bigger picture to new IBO who is not sure about the business of products, creates a sense of belonging and give them assurance that they are not the only one
– Their teaching are applicable not just in business but also in every walk of life
Cons:
—-
– They put pressure on IBOs to spend money and time on every meeting and gathering
– They put to much emphasis even on items which are not worth much, but because they are from system
– They give feeling that if you are not coming to every meeting, attending all function and subscribing to CDs & books you are not part of the team
– While new IBOs are welcomed, old IBOs are even compelled to lie about facts
– They don’t inform you the real cost of being part of the system
– Few times it feel like they are trying to brainwash you in thinking only in certain ways
– Their teaching are more generalised and not very amway business specific
– Emphasis is always on contacting and making more member, than creating a solid customer foundation and then starting to make members
BWW, which few years ago used to command 8 core steps, introduced 9th core step, essential for success, when they lauched communicate. While Amvox was available and was used earlier, was not considered as essential for success.
This is great that amway is finally coming up with ideas, products and education tools which will help in creating, maintaining new businesses. I hope that IBOs can be spared from spending big money on regional seminars etc..I like the concept of having more local seminars like Business Building Seminar (Seminar Rally) in BWW, instead of 1 couple they can bring 2-3 couple and have a day long session at local level. Where people can come and go back same day..no need of staying at hotel, driving long distances and spending money on all that.
Profit=income-expenses. Amway knows a great part of the income side (commissions and website sales), so by knowing profit, Amway knows expenses. Simple math.
Amway suffers claims about “profitability” not because of IBOs with high expenses, but because most IBOs are not trying to make a profit. It’s absolutely ridiculous to be including people who just want to shop in “average incomes”.
There are actually very few complaints from IBOs about lack of profitability. On the Internet it is primarily Amway critics misusing the statistics that are the problem.
Again, u r misreading/misquoting. I am not saying Amway should monitor IBO income & expenses. But I feel Amway should have full right to know r u in profit or not after 6 months in the Business. I feel Amway faces the wrath time & again because of profitability issue even though it is IBO responsibility. Hence to save future problems Amway should do this.
I think u r not able to understand my reasoning behind this suggestion. So lets leave it here and agree to disagree.
Advising people when joining, (and permanently on websites, and regularly in Amagrams/Achieve etc) about known pitfalls is a completely different thing to monitoring people’s income and expenses and giving them advice to without any regard for circumstances, and indeed without any regard for the law.
Personally I think it’s pretty silly even as it stands now, telling people starting a business that they need to watch profitability. It’s like telling people who sign up to run a marathon that they need to know how to run. Duh!
I understand personal circumstances & goals are different but a report card to Amway after 6 months from IBO is a fair position to advice rather than leave it too late. The IBO may not follow the advice but Amway has at least brought it to their notice. When profitability is in question I feel this approach is definitely not insane or ridiculous.
As far as pitfall issue I didn’t raise it all. Why r u countering it if Amway is already doing it?
Sorry, but that is absolutely insane. Having some “corporate rule” advising people as to how to run their business with zero knowledge of individual circumstances or goals?
As for “advising IBO’s of pitfalls”, Amway does it when they join – it’s in the contract, in materials I’ve seen in most countries it’s mentioned again in welcome packs. It’s on websites. It’s regularly in Amagrams.
Now you want them also to inquire as to profitability, and advise – with no knowledge of individual circumstances or goals – that an IBO should effectively quit and have little to no chance of getting a ROI?
The idea is ridiculous. And most certainly not “moral”.
I am not saying Amway should know what is the IBO’s profit or loss or what and where they are investing on BSM’s, its price etc. What Amway needs to know is r u in profit or not after 6 months in Business, giving the IBO’s all possible pointers to calculate their profit honestly. It is a Yes or No question.
If the IBO responds with “No” them Amway should advise them to stop the investments in the BSM’s & other possible areas if they are making it. I feel it is simple, straight forward moral act and can absolve Amway from lot of issues.
To advise IBO’s of pitfalls, well Amway should do it within the first month someone joins the Business
Amway *already* advises all IBOs not to purchase BSM if the expense is excessive relative to income.
I 100% disagree that Amway has “the moral right” to know what I spend my money on. You are aware that in FTC vs Amway, Amway was found guilty of price fixing partly because they wanted to know what price IBOs sold Amway products at.
You are claiming they not only have a right to know what price we sell things for, which would be neccessary to establish income, but also to know what we spend the money on.
A “moral right” to know? Absolutely not.
What they have a moral duty to do is to advise new IBOs of various known pitfalls. They already do this and have done so for years.
I still say most of the IBO’s don’t understand they r Business owners during the initial periods in the Business. They “hear” they are one thro’ CD’s, seminars etc but it takes time for them to “understand” what Business Owner means. My reasoning is not on this issue.
Amway doesn’t have right to restrict u on what u buy. But if as a new IBO u have made or have been making some regular investments in the initial 6 months in Amazon or non-Amazon, N21 or non-N21 etc, Amway has a Moral right to find out if u invested this money to Build ur Amway Business or u would have don’t it even without ur Amway Business?
If the IBO has invested for growing the Amway Business (most of the cases this will be true) then Amway has the right to advise them to stop further investments independently of their Upline if the IBO discloses he/she is not making enough profit to cover the cost. If the IBO still wants to make that investment it is at his own responsibility and not under Amway’s or BSM company’s or Uplines advice.
I feel this is more Black & white in addition to saying BSM’s are optional.
You say ” Most of the new IBO’s don’t understand if they are employee’s or Business owners when they join this Business.”
How can they possibly “not understand”? IBO=Independent Business Owner ABO=Amway Business Owner
Yes, they can be considered like franchisess, but how as a franchise not “free enterprise”? So you enter into a contract and agree to certain conditions. Start your own company, no franchising model. You’ll be signing contracts left right and center.
How is it not “free enterprise”.
The difference between that and what you are proposing is that it’s a contract that stipulates things between 2 parties, eg Amway and the IBO, or a company and a vendor. What you are proposing is that Amway restrict IBOs from buying from just some companies On what basis can Amway possibly say what companies I can buy other products from? Do you believe Amway has the right to stop me buying Think & Grow Rich from Amazon.com? I suspect your answer is “no”. So why on earth do you think they have the right to stop me buying it from Network 21?
Or you’re saying if i want to buy it from N21, I have to tell Amway, but if I want to buy it from Amazon, I don’t? What about if I want to attend a Networking Masterminds event – I have to “report” it to Amway? Why? it’s my time and money, I’ll spend it how I want to – it has nothing to do with Amway
IBOs are told again, and again, and again by Amway that “BSM is optional” and that they don’t have to buy this stuff, and if they do they need to make a balance between income and expenses.
If an IBO continually chooses to ignore that advice to their detriment the only person to ultimately blame is the IBO. Their business, their decisions.
I think u have skewed it a bit here. Amway need not decide what u can or can’t buy but advise & recommend if what u r investing is for Building the Amway business. This advise is even more important if u r not covering ur costs from the business after 6 months of starting the Business.
If u r still investing in BSM’s u have to explicitly mention to Amway in the questioner that it is their own choice and neither Amway or the BSM company or upline team is responsible for it. This can save lot of issues that raise from this business.
Remember most of the new IBO’s make initial investments in the business based on trust of the uplines till they have some knowledge in the Business. This trust can be misused, is being misused or has been misused which has created a lot of problems for Amway.
Please don’t keep mentioning “Free Enterprise” word. A Franchise is not a “Free Enterprise” in my opinion. IBO’s are Franchisee’s. They have to obey the rules of contract & if they breach they will be shown the door. Letting the IBO’s too freely has created problems.
This is not exactly employee thinking. Most of the new IBO’s don’t understand if they are employee’s or Business owners when they join this Business. By the time they realize damage is already done.
Looking at the comments there are always going to be problems if Amway keeps letting out individual systems operate at their own will with no price cap or standardization across board.
(I am all in for one global system jointly operated by Amway & IBOAI .. but that is a different matter all together).
I feel my upline Diamond gave a thumb rule once that the Amway business should be pay u for all ur seminars and Tapes within 4 to 5 months u start the business. I think this is a fair statement but not stressed enough in any tapes or spoken in meetings. I feel this rule should be implemented properly. Amway should send a questioner after 6 months one starts the Business & ask them to reply honestly if they are making enough money thro’ the business to cover their costs on seminars, travel, tapes etc. If the ABO says ‘no’ then upline platinum should be instructed not to ask the ABO to take any more, tapes but help them cover their costs first(Provided the ABO is still willing to build the Business eagarly) with enough clients & Volume till they receive a confirmation from the ABO that they are having enough profit to fund BSM’s.
ZigZagZoom – that proposal seems bizarre to me. Amway should decide what I can and cannot buy from another company? And I’m also a little well … confused … by the comment that the “upline platinum should be instructed not to ask the ABO to take any more tapes”. I’d suggest one part of the problem is there. I’ve never been asked to buy something or “take” something. If I want something, I have to ask for it. If my downline wants something, they order it. We certainly get and give suggestions, but what’s happening in the situation you give? It almost sounds like people are being “forced” to buy stuff against their will … which is just …. well, odd. How do you force someone?
And what about someone like me? For the last several years I haven’t been building an Amway business. I’ve still attended seminars here and there and bought tapes and CDs here and there, because I enjoy them and get value out of them. Is Amway going to “ban” me if my Amway business isn’t covering the expense? What if I try to buy the same (eg books) or similar materials from non-Amway affiliated companies? Is Amway going to call up amazon.com and tell them not to sell me any books? Or are they just going to stop the Amway-affiliated companies selling them to me … which means I’ll then have to pay more for them
Not exactly the spirit of “free enterprise” I think.
Frankly the whole thing smacks of “employee thinking” – the IBO simply can’t be trusted to take responsibility for their business, they need someone else to make the decisions for them. I’d suggest the opposite is needed. IBOs need to take responsibility for their business more quickly.
Spank me. I’ll stop.
You win.
It’s a simple question Jeffrey.
I give up.
I meant I have been to many major functions in my upline Diamond/Executive Diamond/Triple Diamond/and Crown Ambassador LOS, not Plum Blossom. They were marathon 6 to 8 hour sessions that paraded one speaker after another that spoke in generalities about the business, but rarely spoke of specifics on how to get started properly and how to build an Amway business step-by-step. If someone was desperately searching for business-building information, I guess that could have found it, but it was certainly hard to find. What wasn’t hard to find was the constant pushing of tools and buying the weekend tape pack. It was like an infomercial on cable TV, over and over and over. It was blatanly obvious where the Diamonds made their money. I guess if Amway wants to condone this type of stuff that continues to ruin their reputation and contribute to the high dropout rate, then there’s not much I can do about it.
I’m going to go out and generate some PV this afternoon, because I’m still going to do the business. I’m just glad that I’m an INDEPENDENT business owner, so I don’t have to continue to endure the stuff my upline Diamonds put out. I just know that the last three customers I got were people that were in the business that were harassed and coerced by their upline to stay on the system that was obviously not working for them. I also know that of all the people in my group that left, nearly all had been on the system and had felt deceived. The ones that are left either got off the system early or were never on it. Only one couple that is still with me is still on the system and their PV is stagnant. This is only my experience; it may not be typical.
That is all I am going to say about it because I don’t want to argue with you. I’m just glad that the company is supplying training for us orphans out there.
Jeffrey, if all you have is experience with your LOS, why do you continually make claims about all “systems”?
Tickets don’t cost $600 but buy the time you add up all your travel expenses, lodging, etc., it’s around $600 for a couple. I’ve been to many, many, MANY major functions, and yes, I do know what goes on there.
I’m not trying to argue.
Jeffrey, with the network mastermind event, it’s $597 just for one ticket. That’s what it costs “in the real world”. How can $600 for two tickets plus travel and accomodation be considered expensive?
Now, I’ve been trying to find out how Plum Blossom operates. Since you claim to “know what goes on there” would you be able to tell me? I’d also like to get some more info for AmwayWiki on them. They’re are huge and important group.
So please Jeffrey, enlight us.
I think it is ok for the individual Platinums and Diamonds to have training/motivation/awards seminars; I just don’t think they need to cost $600, especially when the meetings don’t really train people how to build a profitable business. The only thing the systems seem to do is to keep people dependent on them and to get people to get their downline dependent on them.
I realize that there is never going to be a perfect way to train and motivate IBOs and I’m certainly not looking for Utopia. I just know how these systems work and what many of the Diamonds’ ulterior motives are. On my upline Diamond’s website, there is no mention of how to get properly started, how to build a profitable retail business, how to follow-through, etc. But on the home page there is an announcement about the latest major function and a “click to buy tickets” icon.
IBOFB, I respect what you are saying and I know where you’re coming from. I also know that there are many Diamonds and Crowns in the early days that built it without a proper system. Is is different today? Yes and no. You still have to make a list of your goals, when you want to reach them, a names list, show the plan, show the products, do a proper follow-through to get them started, etc. I still maintain that it does not take a $600 function every 90 days to build this business.
I think many Diamonds would see growth in their organizations if they would start leading by example, rather than hosting functions and telling everyone else what to do, because they haven’t changed a pin since 1989.
Jeffrey, first of all I’m not aware of any “system” seminar tickets costing $600. By contrast, as just one example, general admission tickets for an upcoming Networking MasterMind Event are indeed $597. And I’ve been to a lot of major seminars with my system and every single one of them has “trained people how to build a profitable business”. An upcoming weekend conference in the US for the system I affiliate with is $185.No offence, but you are not really being honest when you claim to know what happens in these seminars and how much they cost.
You also claim that what “the systems seem to do” is “keep people dependent”, yet the statistics indicate you’re completely wrong. The great majority of people who “go on the system” do not “stay” on the system. Clearly it’s not doing a very good job of “keeping people dependent”!
Also, you give your experience with your Diamond. Well, with my systems US website, there’s “tools by topic” and the first area there is “First 30 days” and it includes titles like “Welcome to Your Business”, “Fast Track – Getting Started”, “Beginning Right”, “Finding Developing and Maintaining Customers”, “Successful Invitations”, “Make Prospecting a Habit”, and “Treat it Like You Own It”, to name a few. There’s also other Tools by Topic sections for “Follow Up/Prospecting” and “Product Training”. For new IBOs there’s an “Apprentice Pack” which includes a book, 4 CDs and two DVD that cover goal setting, inviting, background on the company, product training, how to reach profitability all sorts of stuff.
So don’t tell me you know what “systems” (plural) do. I doubt you have any idea at all what Top4 does. I don’t. How about Plum Blossom? Heckel? WorldWideDiamonds? Do you really know so much about them Jeffrey, or are you just assuming?
There were “early diamonds” etc that built without systems like we have today. The ones that are still qualifying are the ones that developed and implemented systems. I think it’s possible to build an Amway business without a “system”, but frankly I think it’s impossible to maintain it long term. You have to either implement a system yourself, or you need to use one someone else has developed.
Oh, and I agree with what you’re saying about “leading by example” – and I’ve seen my upline and crossline leadership regularly qualifying at new levels. I’ve also seen crossline leadership in the US like the Duncans and Yagers moving on to higher levels too.
Oh, and by the way. The first three Amway Diamonds were Hansen, Dutt, and Victor. All three businesses still qualify at least Diamond, and all three are part of “systems” developed since.
I am glad to see this and will be glad to >>someday<< see the day that ALL of the training will come from the company and the systems will be a thing of the past. I'm all for training and motivation, but I still maintain that this business is simple enough that a $300 to $600 function every 90 days is simply not necessary.
You may “maintain” it all you want Jeffrey, but the reality is I’m yet to find a single Founder’s Diamond who isn’t regularly attending seminars. I recently reread Tod Duncan’s “Killing the Sale” and he mentions his average client (sales professionals) spend around $5000/yr on tapes, books, and meetings. BSM provided by Amway support organisations is nearly always significantly cheaper than similar services offered by competitors.
I do not want Amway to take over all training. I believe it will stifle innovation. Diamonds and/or Platinums will still be responsible for individual training, which means you now have an exponetially higher number of people for the corp to be monitoring individually, instead of being able to statistically monitor affiliated groups. The majority of “system” problems in the past, such as various lawsuits, have come about when there’s been larger numbers of smaller, Diamond-operated systems.
I think the ideal balance between innovation and monitoring is to have a number of different large support companies working closely with the corporation. If the experience of other MLMs is any guide, the alternative is having corporate training and large numbers of agents attending completely independent generic MLM training that (a) is more expensive and (b) lends itself to cross-company raiding problems.
can u plz tell me the source where got this information. Just for the sake of knowledge
It’s on the Amway Australia home page, but only after IBO login. BTW – great blog you’ve setup! I’ve been following it for a while. Feel free to use articles from this site or my other sites, but ensure you always have a link back to the original, and ideally with a “trackback”. This helps improve both our search engine rankings.