Former Quixtar Executive Diamond Orrin Woodward, aided and abetted by an anonymous commenter claiming to be an Amway Australia IBO (whom I suspect is former Executive Diamond Trevor Chatham), has been taking a swipe at Amway Australia quite a bit in some recent blog posts. The anonymous commentator has made various false claims, for example that “the REALITY is that 95% of those who have managed to reach Diamond once, never again reach that level of 6 Platinum IBOs”.
This was easily proven false by a quick check on Amway Wiki which showed that nearly one third of Amway Australia diamonds have gone on to qualify at levels higher than Diamond! Clearly you can’t do that if you’ve never requalified at Diamond. The commentator also claimed that Amway Australia sales reached a high of $290 million in 1993. At the time Amway Australia was part of a publicly listed company, Amway Asia Pacific Ltd. Again, as easily found on Amway Wiki, Amway Australia sales for 1993 were actually nearly half that – $148 million.
Two clearly and provably false statements. What else has he said that is wrong?
Now, I don’t want to deny that Amway Australia, like Amway North America and Amway UK, has been struggling for growth in recent years. In my opinion, over the last decade Alticor and IBO leadership have been a little too focused on new market openings and not made changes when and where they’ve been needed in existing markets (such as dealing with Internet reputation issues). But if there are problems, as evident looking at the real data, why the falsehoods and doomsaying in the comments of Orrin Woodward’s blog? Why not just deal in the facts? Well, as I said, it’s my belief the commentator is Trevor Chatham. Chatham was kicked out Amway Australia for what Amway thought was unethical practices. The language style and claims are virtually identical to those Chatham has already been found guilty of ignoring a court order for spreading. What’s he doing now? MonaVie. Yup, he’s just bad mouthing the competition, aided and abetted by Orrin Woodward.
Meanwhile, Amway Australia moves on. They’ve introduced the Amway Australia Business Centres, which I think are a great initiative, and I’ve recently learned an extremely well known Australian sports star has been signed as a new member of Team Nutriway (Nutrilite is marketed as Nutriway in Australia, New Zealand, and Scandinavia). Nope, not the fellow to the right (more on him below). Like Asafa Powell, Ronaldinho, Sanya Richards, Liu Xiang, and Jen Stuczynski, the new spokesperson will be promoting Nutriway products. This month’s Amway Australia Because Magazine reveals however that another Australian sports star is doing more than just acting as a product spokesperson. Yup, the fellow to the right. Rugby Union and Rugby League football champion Mat Rogers and his girlfriend, model and television personality Chloe Maxwell, were recognized this month as a new Platinums. Here’s what they had to say about the business –
Mat Rogers and Chloe Maxwell are two very well known Aussies. Mat plays professional rugby league and previously played union. Chloe has worked as a model, actress and television presenter. So how is it that this famous couple became Platinum IBOs? Mat explains that Founders Executive Diamond Gad Ghabrial first introduced the business plan to Mat six years ago, but back then, the timing wasn’t right. When Chloe first met Gad and his wife Melissa, she was intrigued by their fabulous lifestyle and wanted to know what their secret was. In December 26, Gad showed Chloe the plan and she joined straight away.
Chloe says her life would have nowhere near as much value if she hadn’t joined the business. “I would be doing empty, meaningless, vacuous television and media commitments for companies with no real integrity and getting paid once for the work that I’ve done, spending it, then having to do more of the same. I shudder to think what my life would be like without this amazing company!”
Mat agrees: “I’d probably be investing in shares or property and then hoping or praying that when I retire in two years I have enough ongoing income to live a decent life. The reality is without this business I’d be straight into the workforce, but not anymore.”
While Orrin Woodward and Trevor Chatham or some other anonymous ex-IBO keep trying to damage Amway Australia with false facts, true champions just keep on building and growing their businesses anyway.
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19 thoughts on “Amway Australia – some say it’s dying, others grow anyway”
Dear Howard and IBOfightback,
Thank you for the replies. I actually am a consultant in my day job so I already know what that takes. 2 degrees and 7 years of on the job training. It would be displaying delusions of grandeur to compare this skill set to amway distribution. But sad that you assumed I couldn’t already possess this mindset.
Howard I didn’t find the products that great. Certainly not cost effective. But if I did like them I’d still struggle to try to persuade others to sell them.
But all of this is irrelevant to the concerns I have about the ethics here – get people believing by using methods of influence. Which in amway means a huge time, financial and emotional (belief) commitment.
Perhaps my mind is closed to it and we will just have to leave it that. Agree to disagree. I’m glad to hear both sides though and have a respectful discussion about it.
Oak, you sound offended. I assume nothing. I am using your post, like other post, to speak to a broader audience. You also sound a bit cynical. Yes, perhaps your mind is closed, which is a shame. You post also seems to be an attempt to justify a decision you are making.
To whom it may concern: A consultant first establishes a relationship, then seeks knowledge of what a person’s concerns are, and then offers suggestions as to how to meet those needs. Doing so gets one away from “selling” and into “helping.” If there is no need, there is no need to offer your product or service.
Nobody likes to be sold to. Everybody likes to buy. Selling involves getting someone to buy something they may not need or want. Most people don’t like to sell and many resent sales people trying to “persuade” them to buy things. ” Selling” is often viewed as a selfish profession. Consultants, on the other hand, are welcomed as friendly, caring helpers. Amway distributors are, for the most part, part-timers with a full-time job doing something else. Distributors would find it much easier to build their part-time Amway business if they adopted a consultant-minded approach of “I’m here to help.” as opposed to “I need money and I want you to buy something from me.”
Oak, may I ask about how you became a distributor?
I’m not offended at all. I just know what it takes to be a consultant in real life. Not just in my mind!
I guess if you turn around the point of amway from ‘selling’ to ‘helping’ as you suggest, one could justify to yourself trying to recruit people. I don’t agree that this is an accurate position to take. So we disagree on that.
As a consultant people come to me with a need or problem – not me tracking them down and creating a perceived need. Which is how I interpreted the amway talks I went to. You might disagree but that’s my opinion.
I was also alarmed at the lack of proof of success at the talks (testimonials and photos are poor evidence of anything in academic circles), and lack of public questions at the end of talks which is standard in most professional or academic conferences.
Nothing I’ve read has assuaged my unease about the ethics of amway. So I’m not going any further with it. That’s not closed minded, that’s my decision, and I am very capable of making informed ones.
But thanks for your thoughts.
Oak, I’m sorry to hear that you are disenchanted. That brings up the question as why you got involved in the first place.
I just ran across this quote and think it applies here:
“Know the fault you find in others is a reflection of a fault in thyself. Be to others just as you would have others be to thee, and ye will remove much of that.”
Here is another quote from the same person:
“When you are prepared for a thing, the opportunity to use it will present itself.”
Books, tapes, CDs, videos, and all kinds of “functions” are ways to prepare for “opportunities.”
Most of what I learned in college did NOT prepare me to become a high school math teacher. Formal schooling by no means prepared me to become a successful network marketer. The above and associating with the people who had “the fruit on the tree” did. Continuing education is a critical element to one’s success. These are slight edges that the unsuccessful don’t take advantage of. The Slight Edge, by Jeff Olson, is one of my favorite books.
Oak, about your relevant concern of the ethics of sharing the Amway opportunity with others – building a relationship should be the first step. I have no idea who is teaching you what. In the end, it is your business and you are responsible for the way you choose to develop it. I’m glad you want to do it ethically. Any other way won’t last for long.
People don’t join Amway,per se; they join people. Hopefully you joined because you liked and trusted the person that you signed up with. Why would you do otherwise? Now, the question is: Are you relate-able? Do you have a winning personality? No matter, because, the last paragraph addresses that.
Weak willed people that are persuaded against their will, will remain of the same opinion still. They will quit at the first opportunity they get; and justifiably so. So, stay away from persuading people. Find a need and fill it, instead. That is the responsible thing to do.
May I suggest you interview people to find their need, not their greed. Qualify them as to their character and their willingness to learn how to improve their situation. Few will qualify, so you must be willing to take the time to sift and sort. The time spent will be well worth it in the long run. Building any kind of successful business takes years; not months.
Part of learning about building a successful business is getting educated about how to improve oneself. (Don’t let that thought offend you.) There are plenty of self-help books you can buy from a variety of sources. Check up line to find the ones that you may specifically need. We realize one doesn’t get a college education without years of study. Learning how to improve oneself is continuing education; for the rest of one’s life, if one chooses to do so. That is a slight edge most people miss.
Hi Howard I only just saw your second reply now.
I don’t really know how relatable I am. But what you’re saying about building relationships is exactly what troubles me.
Building relationships in amway means doing it with an agenda. To get someone believing in amway. That is the first ethical road block for me.
The second is using that relationship to increase your influence over someone.
There’s no point me talking to anti amway people about this. But I haven’t heard anything from anyone in the system that addresses it adequately either.
Hence, I won’t commit to it. I don’t need you to agree or argue a case I just came to this website asking the same question I have elsewhere.
Thanks for the input.
Oak, when one decides to go into business for oneself, any kind of business, the agenda is usually to make money. That is what attracts people to the multi-level marketing (MLM) industry and specifically Amway. Unlike a traditional business, most people are in it part-time while they keep their day job. The cost is within reach of most; unlike if one wants a franchise.
Relationship marketing is a hallmark of MLM. Without that relationship, most people will quit. People, in reality, join people; not a business. We are all different, all unique. We won’t relate to everyone in the business or to everything we hear. The beauty of the business is that you are in business for yourself but don’t have to be by yourself. You get to choose who you associate with. You get to choose who you sponsor. You don’t have to build YOUR business exactly the way your upline does.
Oak, if you change your mind and decide to give it a try, might I suggest that you treat your business like a business. In a traditional business, an employer interviews many individuals to find the right fit for the position needing to be filled. Wouldn’t it be wise to do the same with your prospective business partners? The interview process should go both ways. Both should want to be associated with someone they like and can trust. The interview process will, of necessity, take more than one day to discover if they are trustworthy and likable; responsible and teachable. You are looking for partners with good character.
If you want to develop as a leader, I can think of no better place to start than with the help a good uplline can offer. The books they may recommend will be invaluable. (And they will cost way less than a college textbook.) Audio and video offerings are a popular way to get information. Associating with people at all kinds of functions is a good way to re-charge you’re emotional batteries. Take lots of note. Talk with people. Be social.
Oak, for right now, I would suggest you read some books on how the mind works so you will better understand yourself and others. Fear is the mind killer. Knowledge, put into action, is power. That power can defeat fear. You are responsible for all you choose to do and all you choose not to do. And you, alone, are responsible for the consequences of the choices you make. Choose wisely, Oak. You can do it!
Amway is going backwards in australia, it has been for a long time. it is a terrible business model, most of the diamonds have quit. all of the money was in the tapes and books, seminars, take that away, no income. their are better networking opportunities, don’t let these big bullies amway corporation try to tell you otherwise.
Chris, I’ve been hearing that for years, such as 7 years ago when I wrote this piece. The fact remains that every single Diamond in the organisation I joined in Australia back in 1997 is still a Diamond, indeed the vast majority of them have qualified at higher levels since then, and there have been new Diamonds as well.
why would you get involved in this if the company can terminate you.
where is due process
googlin amway leads you to all the critism and it is by the very people who have built the largest businesses
forget the bad mouthing, why take a risk when it can all be taken away. that is not a busines like decison
Let me get this right – getting involved with ANY business where a contract can be cancelled is “not a business like decision”? Au contraire John – contracts are a normal part of business, and nearly always incur some level of risk. Haven’t you been following all the news in the US with GM and Chrysler cancelling dealer contracts? Or Starbucks close franchises? Like any contract an Amway contract has risks and the benefits at you weigh them up before signing it.
I just want to share the opportunity with serious people who are not blind mind. That’s is nothing else in the world can knock AMWAY down. It’s a giant wave of the now and we are moving fast to the future. If you are slow thinker, we have a class, a system, a trusted team leaders and the best Nutrilite vitamin for the brain. The awsome thing is IBO get pay to do all this activities. You eat, you drink and do the rest( ligal things ) and get pay.
Best of all, AMWAY will be the organisation to open the gate way to set people free from the invisible slavery on earth.
I think it is unethical to try to coerce people to join forever a belief system that relies on them purchasing goods and then recruiting others. This is what I don’t understand. I’ve seen the talks giving tips on coercion and techniques of manipulation and even if you coat it in a sugary sauce of happiness energy and hope this is the dirty side of amway that repulses a lot of people or corrupts them.
The key word here is “coercion.” People who use this technique are desperate to make some quick money. They don’t last, but give us all a black eye.
Building relationships is the key to creating a strong business. That doesn’t happen quickly. It takes time to build trust. When people like and trust you, they will want to associate with you. Then they will be more open to what you want to share with them Adopt the mentality that you are a consultant. Find their needs and then offer to help them fill those needs. There is no pressure using this strategy. Help enough people get what they want and eventually you will be able to obtain all that you desire.
Well the issue is actually trying to influence people to the extent one has to in amway. It’s coercion when someone doesn’t like what you’re doing, maybe persuasion the way you’ve suggested.
It’s still unethical to impose a belief system on someone. No matter how nice you are, how much you think you are helping someone.
And most people see through it.
Sure. So don’t do it! “Coerce” someone and you might get an app – but how long will they stay in the business? How much volume will they generate? How many others will they introduce? The “prospect anything that moves, drag them in kicking and screaming” type of approach created a lot of Diamonds in the 80s and 90s …. and their businesses very quickly fell apart. It’s not a sustainable business model, not least because of the reputation damage it does.
As one of my mentors put it though – “we’re looking for the people who are looking for us”.
Oak, you got in and got some training that you don’t agree with. Do you like the products? Do you like them enough to recommend them to other? Would you care to share them them with others if they are high quality, cost effective, and come with a 100% satisfaction guarantee? If your customers are happy with you and what you offer, do you think some of your happy customers might want to become distributors also?
You are quite right to believe that it is “unethical to impose” one’s beliefs on others. On the other hand, it is quite all right to share one’s thoughts with others and let them make up their own minds. We were born with free will and are able to make our choices freely, and we are responsible for all the choices we make. Ethical distributors will find out what others want and “suggest” ways to to get those results. That’s what consultants do. You should run your business in a way you believe to be ethical. After all, you are an independent business owner. Develop a consultant mind-set and you will do okay.