Amway UK & Ireland – IBS: The other side of the story

As reported on this site several weeks ago, UK & ROI Amway Diamonds affiliated with IBS, Jerry & Mandy Scriven, Pat & Greta Gregory, and Dave Butler had not been offered renewed contracts with the "new" Amway. Amway itself confirmed this with a posting on the Amway media blog entitled IBS Unplugged.

Jerry and Mandy Scriven have now responded with a well written and well supported letter on their website – As it is, the letter and the supporting evidence, including letters and emails from Amway, is quite damning of the management of Amway UK & ROI. I recommend you read them.

Without hearing more of the Amway side of this story (and there’s always at least two sides to every story, and they’re often all true! From the teller’s perspective ….) then these Diamonds have been treated extremely badly. It appears to be another example of the corporation acting with little consideration or respect when there are legal issues involved – act first, ask questions later, who cares who is hurt along the way.

I call on Amway UK & ROI to provide further explanation of their reasons behind these terminations.

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40 thoughts on “Amway UK & Ireland – IBS: The other side of the story”

  1. Very interesting comments and facts and theories I spent 10 years in this business and never thought about how much I payed for books tapes meetings weekends etc etc wow

  2. I worked for amway uk hq and I can tell you that they knew, supported and even sue cox who was the legal bod at hq in this was involved in vetting materials – books and tapes. So you see they all supposed it until the shit hit the fan abroad!

    1. Hi Melanie, thanks for contributing your experience. I’m not sure what your point is? The fact Amway vets BSM is not a secret, and neither is BSM per se. It’s my understanding that the problem in the UK really was a lack of success by ABOs and some ABOs making unrealistic claims in unvetted material. In other words, promoting an “unrealistic dream”.

  3. Glad to see this forum is still active. It should not be forgotten, the vast con trick that IBS operated on thousands of people for years.

    The argument, is, as ever, not with Amway but with the groups formed within it.

    Judging from some of the responses to my previous comments, including the angry young man from County Down, well, he can’t help being Irish can he, many people can’t grasp this simple fact.

    If you want a decent MLM that actually pays something including a car, try Neways. Their compensation plan, when I studied it, simp[ly knocks Amway’s derisory earnings into a pyramid shaped cocked hat!

    1. I checked out the Neway’s comp as you suggest and don’t see how it “knocks” Amway at all. I’ve been unable to find an income disclosure statement. Can you provide one?

  4. anyone know what happened to Dave McCune I was in his DTS system before it went under, heard he went to Poland?

  5. Scamway is the cult of greed. It uses manipulation and the law of attraction which is a form of WITCHCRAFT . It is very dangerous they pay lip service to God but the God of the Bible is very very different than the one preached at Scamway rallies. Nobody talks about repentance but rather they abide in the lusts of the eyes, the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life

  6. Still awaiting an admission from Scrivens/Gregory/Butler etc. etc. groups that they made their pile from books and tapes paid for by the suckers.

    Should it ever come, (hah! hah! funny joke), it would go some way to redress the widespread misrepresentation that they perpetrated for years before being rumbled.

    I find their anti-Amway bleatings hilarious. Talk about the pot and the kettle!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Keep up the self-righteous moaning, Pat, Greta, Jerry and Mandy and all the rest of you. It’s first class entertainment.

    1. For the record, I was in Amway and I was part of the Scriven/Gregory downline. I decided not to build an Amway business in the end, but for a fact, without the growth, learning and vision I gained from purchases I made from the (IBS) International Business Systems training I would not have the success I enjoy today.
      Mark Bellinger – Entrepreneur (Not a Sucker)

  7. there is giant demand for the products here in holywood, co.down and greater belfast area ( 500,000 people ). I AM SELLING IT EVERY DAY TO BUSINESS USERS AND HOUSE-HOLDS. SINCE THE RENAISSANCE IN 2007, PRODUCTS HAVE BECOME MUCH CHEAPER AND PEOPLE USE THEM FASTER, instilled by ethical salespeople!! reading of the superb books drives me on to achieve targets + goals i set for myself each week. THERE IS NO RECESSION WITH THESE PHENOMENAL PRODUCTS ! ONLY LAZY PEOPLE WHO LOVE THE B.B.C. and then they end up C.B.B. couldn’t BE BOTHERED ATTITUDE destroyed!

    1. Hello bill. Did you know john and dianna lyons who had a diamond business in county Down in the eighties. Just wondering

      1. I know John and Di Lyons…they are good people and still live in Bangor N.Ireland. They were out up line Diamonds and they were one of the first couples to get involved in Amway UK /ROI.

  8. I agree completely with the comments of Bill Simpson, the IBS leaders were feathering thier own nests at the expense of the distributers, who in most (if not all) cases could ill afford it,so called sales aids ie books & tapes were percieved as being almost obligatory otherwise you were not serious about your business,myself & my wife & my son Robert were involved with Amway through IBS for several years & paid out money we could not afford on the tools of the business,we must have paid out thousands,we were coerced into going to open plan meetings & seminars which cost a packet including overnight stays in hotels, while the diamonds were living lavish lifestyles on our backs,I used to go to Dave Butlers house for counselling, & I heard him say on one occassion that the money he was getting was obscene,it would be nice to recoup some of this money,but I see little hope of that, ,I only hope that they have a conscience, but I doubt it.

    1. Mike, Bill hasn’t responded to my question, but I ask the same of you – are you aware of the significant changes Amway has made over the past few years in the UK?

      1. The argument is not with Amway- they are saying that the products are great- but with the systems and leaders that are no longer involved with the business. The stigma attached to network marketing which the majority of people still assume is pyramid selling (belive me, I know it is not as I was in Pat Gregory’s group for 9 years so I know the difference!)but Brits are quick to pigeon hole such things.
        The UK business is now copmpletely dominated by Polish Brits and Indian Brits as can be seen from the pin recognitions in the Amagram. This once again shows how the business reaches a new country or community within a country and goes balistic for a few years before it slows and trickles along with the die-hards who are either a) making a lot of money or b) making no money but desperate to clingh onto their dream.
        We still se the products so someon in our upline is making a small amount from us which is fine. But as fot this being a viable business opportunity for the majority of people- it ain’t.

        1. Well, just heard today that UK has had 21% growth over the past year, so clearly there are new people in the UK making money. Immigrants being a growing market isn’t unusual, immigrants are the major small business entrepreneurs in a lot of fields.

  9. Recently I have been encouraged contiuosly to join Amway by a distributor. I ve read a lot news about diamond terminated as the result I become really reject Amway now

    1. I should have updated this post. The Scrivens and members of the group had failed to deactivate all their websites, as requested multiple times by Amway, and their failure to do so put the entire company at legal risk. As such Amway really had no choice, even though I suspect the error by the Scrivens was inadvertent.

      Amway did the right thing to protect all other ABOs, that should be encouraging to you, not discouraging.

    2. Dear Adam,

      You are doing the right thing.

      My wife and I were Amway UK distributors for 7 years, say from 1993 to 2000.

      The problem was never with Amway, it was with the group leaders, ie Scrivens/Gregory/Butler.

      They never let on the fact that their money came direct from us, the suckers who were virtually ordered to buy their ‘reccomended’books and tapes, the IBS ‘Tools’, and NOT sales of Amway products.

      They were paying each other fantastic amounts, eg 12000 pounds!!!!!!!!!! just to appear for two hours as speakers at a monthly ‘Seminar’ at Wembley Conference Centre.

      This interesting fact started to be realised with the advent of the Internet through sales of PC’s, to the general public, around I think 2000 approx.

      The whole IBS racket collapsed quite quickly.

      The Scrivens/Gregory clique can say what they like, but we felt the whole thing was misrepresentation by the ‘Groups’ on a gigantic scale.

      They don’t give a damn if you sell no soap powder atall, just as long as you keep their plush lifestyle going by buying their books and (heavily overpriced) tapes.

      To date there has been no convincing argument to the contrary, and there must be thousands like us.

      Nothing wrong with Amway, but the ‘Groups’, O’Brien, Yeager, Britt, Scrivens, Gregory etc, knew damn well what they were doing and have served to give Amway the bad name.

      Don’t forget how AMWAY got started, two Nutrilite salesmen, Rich de Voss and Jay van Andel who changed sides.

      Therefore AMWAY are reluctant to discipline these ‘Groups’ who boost their sales, when they mislead the poor bloody distributors.

      They say it’s a numbers game,and in theory it is, but they misrepresent the gigantic scale of the numbers.

      I subsequently met up with LYNDON FARRINGDON, Emerald Direct, circa mid nineties.

      He had personally sponsored over 1000!!!!! distributors, and HE couldn’t make it to Diamond.

      The reason for that was that people will always drop out or do nothing faster than you can sponsor them.

      Keep well clear.

      Most of the Amway products are very good, but as for the rest it’s a diabolically clever racket.

      Kind regards,

      Bill Simpson.

      1. Bill. I think you are right. Despite changes by amway its almost impossible to build this business and sustain it. Since i saw the plan a long time ago i followed the group i would have benn with. Nobody went anywhere. The diamonds are all history. There were several thousands in that group. They cant be all incompetent. Now you will always find a few exceptions but not many. These are guys who can sponsor dozens of people and motivate others t do the same. These leadership skills are rare. Of course i realise if you get on the tools cicuit you could make money. But thats stealing from innocent dreamers. So at least i would not do that . Im still a user of products and have been in several countries so i stay in touch with distributors and see the fall out rates. All say the same. Low commissions and high business costs. Just not worth it.

          1. Im not convinced Platinum can be considered a business. I suspect most at this level are at breakeven after expenses. And certainly it does not indicate sustainability. Most of them will have quit in 3 years.

          2. (1) I reached profitability first time at an eigth the volume of a platform. What makes you think Platinums aren’t profitable? Where are they spending their nearly €30000/yr?
            (2) Looking at the qualifications it appears most Platinums are moving on to Founders Platinum and higher

            Where are you getting your “suspicions” from? Why do you think they’re quitting within 3 years?

          3. I calculate a large portion of that income goes on downline bonus. The rest on car expenses, meetings, telehone. Not many in anycase would be on the everage income. As quit rates are high most will fall out of qualification. A few will remain and even grow their business. Fair play to them if they have success. But its not worth the effort.

          4. Vincent, you appear to be a couple of decades behind the times. IBOs haven’t been paying out downline bonuses since the 1990s. The average income figures are *after* all the downline bonuses are taken out and paid by Amway.

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