Idle gossip from idle minds – another example of a clueless Amway critic

In the comments of the post More Clueless Amway Critics, one of the subjects of the post, Amway critic pokerpooner, decided to add his side of the story into the comments. In my opinion all he successfully did was prove the point of the post – he’s clueless about the Amway business, how it works, and it’s potential as a business. Later in the discussion, when I asked him to provide some evidence to back up some claims he was making, he simply became abusive. In my experience Amway critics often require supporters of the Amway business to be able to provide incontrovertible proof of any claims. Indeed on more than one occasion I’ve been told that Amway Corporation is not an acceptable source for Amway sales data, since they’re probably lying about it. 🙄 Ask them for some evidence to back up their claims however, and all of a sudden they want to change the subject.

During the discussion with pokerpooner I happened across another example of the kind of claims that Amway critics make that are clearly, and provably, clueless. Scott Larsen on his Amquix site regularly posts collections of emails he’s received from his visitors. I actually analysed several months of this once and discovered that only a third of those he posted were actually of people with a negative experience. Another third were people supporting the business (and I know he doesn’t publish all of those, since he didn’t publish one of mine) – but the remaining third or so were prospects and brand new IBOs who had decided not to join/quit because of what they had read on his site – clear evidence of the damage being caused by the Internet War against Amway. Here is an example of the kind of idle, clueless, gossip they read –

It appears that emerald Mike Waechter maybe quitely losing his Emerald ship and may have to resume his job back at Allied insurance. This is a big deal because in the fall of 2002 he had a big retirement party featuring more than 1,000 Quixtar distributors, many of who came close to disturbuting the peace of a Des Moines insurance agency.

This was part of an email from “john” that Scott Larsen published in a section headed Site Visitor E-Mail Oct – Dec 2005. Mike Waechter was an IBO in the LTD organisation, downline of double diamonds Joe & Marybeth Markiewicz. “John” even backed up his claim about the supposedly parlous nature of the Waechter business with the name of a Ruby in the Waechter downline whom John claimed had file for bankruptcy and quit Amway. Was any of this true? How would a reader know? Amway businesses do fall out of qualification, so it’s certainly plausible. There’s just one small problem for John’s credibility. You see, according to Larsen, this letter was sent sometime in October, November, or December of 2005. As readers of Achieve magazine and would soon find out, and IBOs in LTD most likely already knew – Mike & Jana Waechter didn’t fall out of Emerald qualification then: they had just qualified as new Diamonds!

Another clueless Amway critic. It’s sad so many people believe them.

182 thoughts on “Idle gossip from idle minds – another example of a clueless Amway critic”

  1. And yet even more deceptin from the master of manipulation himself:

    “Tell me John, what isn’t “good” about getting $1380/yr for spending 30 seconds to ask your brother if he wants to buy some XS, and him saying no? What’s not “good” about that?”

    So NOT selling XS makes you money?


    Amway gives you money just for asking people to buy your overpriced products, even if they don’t actually purchase them?

    Typical. Typical. Typical.

  2. TWS,

    Here’s some positive I learned from the business in a couple lines.

    I’m glad I became involved because it was an excellent lesson to not put blind faith in someone profiting directly from you while having absolutely zero accountability in regards to what they say.

    I’m glad I became involved because it showed me that when you use critical thinking skills, you can always find out ulterior motives and slights of hand.

    I’m glad I became involved because it was a real lesson for me in how seemingly wonderful, caring, and “successful” people fake their way through life creating a wake of financial destruction in their path of the many people who failed to see what I saw and continued dreaming.

    I have much to be thankful for.

    Thanks Amway!

  3. Visioneer,
    If the diamonds are financially free, why do they have to profit from their struggling downline? If Amway/Quixtar income has set them free, why profit from downline? Is it that the A/Q income is not enough to justify the effort they put into the business or is it pure greed?
    A favorite saying I heard in WWDB, “Tools are optional, but so is success.” This is the “proven system” – CORE. Every function I attended was infinitely more about being CORE than Quixtar. The tapes and CDs are not difficult to identify. If you are a high ranking IBO and it appears you have a connection to the IBOAI, then I think you know the income derived from tools. And I think you know that for Puryear and Duncan it is much more than Quixtar. It will take some sort of legal action to ever know that becuase they will never be honest with their downline about just how much their kingdoms are built on profit from tools.
    It is interesting to me that the former diamonds (the guys who have been there) who have now left are willing to admit “the money is not in Amway/Quixtar but in the tools”.

  4. I put no thought in to my response? Good grief. Have you put any thought in at all to your thinking?

    Tell me John, what isn’t “good” about getting $1380/yr for spending 30 seconds to ask your brother if he wants to buy some XS, and him saying no? What’s not “good” about that?

  5. john,

    Kate, Premier membership, cd’s, and functions are provided as tools to help people grow their business. If they don’t feel it’s worth it, they don’t have to get it. I am currently working with a single mom who is building the business. She has started to sponsor some people and her pv is going up, but doesn’t want to get on kate yet. You know what I told her? That’s fine. She can get on it later IF she wants to.
    Just compare the pricing on these tools to outside sources. I occassionally purchase from One of the most respected self development companies out there. Most of their cd sets run $80 to $90 for 6.

    If you never believed you got a value from any of the tools, there is also a buy back policy.

    I’ve always felt that I got a good to great value for my money from the cd’s and functions. Perhaps you didn’t feel that way, but then I don’t know if you did anything about it while you were in the business. Did you bring it up with your upline and let them know how you felt about it? Or did you just quit and decide to start writing negative posts?

    If you brought it up with your upline, I do hope they tried to work it out with you. Of course, you could have also just built the business without the tools at all. A blogger named Jeffrey on the Opportunity Zone is doing it that way. Then you could have gone back to your sponsor and showed them how to do it without a system. But, I guess we’ll never know that answer from you.

    Also, being teachable/coachable is different from bringing up any challenges you may have with the business. I always tell my downline to ask the hard questions. We do have the answers. Challenges/problems always go upline.
    As IBOFB said, my goal is to help my downline build a huge Amway Global business.

  6. IBOfightback,
    You responded exactly as I expected. I suspect you are one of the 8,300 who. You are excellent at duplicating tape speak. You put no thought into your response; your mind is one track and it appears you have objectivity whatsoever. $115 a month gross (before expenses and much of it coming from buying enough self consumption meadowbrook toilet paper to stock the U.S. Calvary) is not impressive.

  7. On Thisbiznow website, Amway/Quixtar is still using numbers based on data gathered in 2001.

    I believe more recent data is in the QBI. Note that these statistics are partially based on a survey conducted every 5 years.

    I also think you’re smarter than that John and you’re not being completely honest. You know what the statistics do and don’t say, and what is required to be judged as “active” – ie pretty much nothing. Don’t you think making $115/mth, on average, is a pretty good result for doing, on average, nothing?

    I believe there are many hard working moms and college kids who give it their all

    I believe there are many too – and indeed there are hundreds and hundreds of folk who qualify as new Platinum every year! I don’t believe there is many who do it consistently for 5 years.

    In fact, more than once I’ve seen a survey done of several thousand IBOs, asking how many of them had been “core” every month for the previous 6 months. Only about 1% were. And every time I’ve seen this done, every single one of them was silver and above or damn close to it

    That’s nearly a 100% success rate.

    You also say –

    When the mentor/teacher who is to be “always trusted” is profiting from selling you the tools that he says are the key to your success, there is a very blatant and obvious conflict of interest.

    John, the “mentor/teacher” is also profiting from selling you the Amway products that he says are a key to your success as well. It’s just as blatant and obvious a conflict of interest, isn’t it?

    Except, no, it’s not.

    How does the “mentor/teacher” increase the amount of Amway product he sells? He gives advice that help you increase the size of your business.

    How does the “mentor/teacher” increase the amount of BSM he sells? He gives advice that help you increase the size of your business.

    He has exactly the same interest as you – helping you build a large Amway business, since that’s the only way to increase the size of his business. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking BSM or SA8.

  8. TWS,
    I appreciate your request & will try to respond genuinely and honestly.
    First, you want me to share something positive. I can honestly say that I have a positive (accurate) understanding of this business.
    Second, you want my comments to be current. I will do the best I can but that is difficult because the numbers that Amway/Quixtar chooses to make public are always incredibly outdated.
    For example: On Thisbiznow website, Amway/Quixtar is still using numbers based on data gathered in 2001. I know of no other company in America that shares its statistics of success etc. with numbers that are 7 years old. But as a reference point, Thisbiznow reports that in 2001 the average IBO earned $115 per month (gross).
    Thisbiznow also shows that in 2005 over 370,000 IBOs earned $370.1 million dollars in bonuses. If you divide 370,100,000 by 370,000 – you find the average IBO earned $1000 per year. Divide that by 12 and you will clearly see (according to Amway/Qixtar itself) that in 2005 the average IBO earned less than $84 per month (gross). That is 40% less earned by the average IBO in 2005 than in 2001.
    I would love for Amway/Quixtar to give us up to date numbers. For example, they know how much IBOs earned in bonuses in 2007 and they know how many IBOs shared in those bonuses. They could provide those numbers right now. But they don’t.
    So I positively understand that while the WWDB Diamonds were constantly telling us how QUixtar was exploding and how fired up they were – the business was actualy in many ways in decline. Then Amway/Quixtar declared that the name “Quixtar” never really caught on and they are going back to their Amway
    name in hopes of gaining name recognition. I know for certain that the IBOAI Board denounced this and voted a no confidence vote in Amway. However, the IBOAI Board (in public) tells such a different story. The site talks about how excited they are about the transformation.
    So for me, this is more of the same kind of deceptions that IBOs are continually presented with.
    Also, according to Amway/Quixtar .1683% “active” IBOs reach platinum level. That is 1 in 600. And .0120% reach diamond level. That is 1 in about 8,300.
    Those are not impressive numbers. And I do not believe that only 1 in 8,300 actually put in the time and effort. I believe there are many hard working moms and college kids who give it their all, get on CORE; put money into the pockets of kingpins for Kate, Premier, CDs, functions, etc. It is not that they are not trying; it is that the odds are stacked incredibly against success in this business and the constant deception from stage.
    Finally, new IBOs are told to trust their upline (their upline diamonds are mentors and teachers who want them to succeed). When the mentor/teacher who is to be “always trusted” is profiting from selling you the tools that he says are the key to your success, there is a very blatant and obvious conflict of interest.
    WWDB teaches that CORE is necessary for success. Puryear, Duncan and the rest of the diamonds will never provide Kate, Premier, CDs, functions etc. at cost. Instead they profit from their downline. Why? Because if there was no profit in tools, their Amway/Quixtar income wouldn’t be worth the time. And if their Amway/Quixtar income is enough to set them “financially free” then why do they have to make even more profit off of the people who are trying to just get by who they are supposed to care about so much?
    I have been very honest with numbers and thoughts. I hope you will be genuine in your response.

  9. Are there any “current” critics out there? It seems like all the dialogue keeps rehashing the same negative stuff from 10+ years ago. I know that people have had unfortunate experiences in this business, but why can’t we talk about all the improvements going on? All the positives that the transformation is already providing. The new products, the added bonuses, the re-emphasis on building a balanced, profitable business.

    Oh, thats right. We’re dealing with critics: A person you expresses an unfavorable opinion about something. (And nothing more)

    Just once, I’d like to see a true critic share their positive experiences they had with this business. With no strings attached. No snide comments. And no buts. Just a couple lines of what they liked. And if they can’t, than that proves they don’t know the business that I know.

  10. Ouch,

    Compelling testimony! Hard to deny that.

    Bridgett, thanks for sharing your personal info. Even though others are afraid to do so. Something about transparency that is refreshing and debunking, all at the same time!

  11. Rocket, I remember the conversations you had with Bridgett on OZ. How come you can’t and you were a part of it? Amazing (well, no, typical actually!) that you expect other people to have to provide information about themselves, again and again, yet you ignored requests, again and again, to provide any info about yourself.

    Why is that?

    On another note, there was some discussion between pokerpooner and bridgett about WWDB diamonds and buying houses “cash”. Pokerpooner claimed it was common for WWDB diamonds to imply they buy everything, including houses, cash. Bridgett disagreed. I asked pokerpooner to provide an MP3 backing up his assertions. He refused. He asked Bridgett to provide MP3 backing up her side.

    She has done exactly that, providing me with an MP3 of a WWDB CommuniKate message with pokerpooner’s own upline Diamond talking about how he rented his house up to EDC because it made sense for him to do so, his reasoning for doing so, and of course advising that it depends on individual circumstances and opportunities.

  12. Back to the issue of critics of Quixtar/Amway Global as I read the increasingly biting comments on this thread I couldn’t help but think of the many public franchise owners I worked with as a CFP and the many biting conversations they had with their franchisors. The franchisors aggressively promoted their ‘proven systems’, getting prospects very excited about the success to be had with it. Clearly they were selling…that’s what businesses do. And regardless of the hype or even the degree of honesty employed in the selling of their various business concepts the results generated by franchisees were always the same. The very few who did what it took to succeed did and the many who didn’t do what it took to succeed didn’t. Those who succeeded passionately supported their respective franchisors, those who didn’t succeed quit and (many of them) vehemently criticized and complained about the franchisor. Each business franchise model had good and bad aspects, some had horrible issues to deal with but it was the same deal for every franchisee. The difference in results was the difference in work ethic. I think it is the same for our business.

  13. Not cranky, just being direct.

    Sorry you feel that way.

    Links would be nice. I don’t remember “all but” calling you a liar. If I thought you were lying, I’d say it.

    Have a gooder!

  14. Holiday? Oh, that’s right…Canadians say holiday, while Americans say vacation. Checked out my blog, ay? Sorry we didn’t go over to the Canadian side to see the Falls. Didn’t have the kids’ birth certificates to cross the border since it was an impromptu trip.
    And why so cranky with me, rocket?

    I try to be civil with you and you seem to go on the attack with your snide comments.

    You memorialized a three-month conversation we had over at Opportunity Zone’s Ada-Tudes by creating a link on your blog to it, using my name, and you don’t seem to recall anything about my business?

    Also over at Opportuntity Zone, at Beth’s Inside Quixtar, you all but called me a liar when I made mention of our (my husband’s and my) downline Platinum leg.

    Are you pulling my leg or do you reallly have such a short-term memory?
    And lastly, I don’t care about your Amway/Quixtar experience.

    All I have asked (about six times now) is when and for how long were you an IBO.

    And you refuse to answer.

    That’s okay.

    I understand.


  15. I asked about your business. You said it was out on the web somewhere.

    I don’t wanna look for it. Doesn’t mean that much to me. You had questions about me and my experience, and as quid pro quo, I wanted to know more about you and your business.

    That’s all. While we’re quoting other people (I know, CRAZY! Amway people quoiting others..)

    “There is nobody so blind as those that will not see.”

    Enjoy your holiday. You prospecting people so you can write it off? Your leaders recommend doing so.

  16. rocket,

    My activity and my profits would be a great blog post IF you and other critics were my target audience.

    Sorry to break you heart, but I know where you stand and there ain’t nothin’ gonna change your mind, so why waste my precious time? Tick Tock Tick Tock.

    How does the saying go? “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”

    “Lack of cooperation”


  17. Bridgett, your lack of cooperation is the reason I don’t feel the need to share anything with you about my experience.

    You’ll show your calender? So we can be expecting a blog post showing us what you did and the profit you made from doing so?

    Yeah right. Empirical proof is something none of you have, and your leaders won’t show.

    Sounds like a winner to me!

  18. john,

    I’ll show you my calendar. It’ll show that when I do nothing, nothing happens…and when I do something, something happens.

    Very simple.

    Very basic.

    Very elementary.

    In terms of tax returns…huh? I don’t need people’s tax returns to know that there’s a boatload of cash to be made with the Amway/Quxitar business.

    Just look at the Amway Sales & Marketing Plan as well as the published largest and average bonuses paid out at all the pin levels.

    Those are official figures from the company who is actually writing the checks.

    I think that’s a far better source.

    But what do I know? Not like I’m not an accountant who’s dealt with hundreds of millions of dollars in a high-profile industry with millionaires in front and behind the camera.

    You wishing me the best leaves me to believe you’re not gonna answer my many questions I asked you.

    That’s okay. I understand.



  19. John, I think anyone with any kind of business could confirm visioneer’s numbers at least roughly fit their own experience.

    N21 provides all IBOs who want them with statistics for attendance rates of *growing* businesses within the N21 organisation, and they have higher attendance rates than non-growing organisations. Growing businesses have attendance rates much as visioneer reports.

  20. Bridgett,
    Are you serious? You want to see their calendar. Let me see yours. Let me see Kosage’s, Shores and Duncans. Why won’t a diamond ever show his tax return to prove his Quixtar income? The answer he will give is “that is private”. Well, how is it private when he states “in huge public forums” that he makes over X amount of dollars? But I am convinced that without tool profits, his business would cost as much to run as he makes and would take endless hours.
    I do enjoy your spirited conversation & as always wish you the best.

    Where do you get your statistics from (attendance at functions, etc)? I’m curious. Is it public knowledge or something that only a WWDB representative would know?

  21. Pokerpooner has left a number of further highly offensive posts, obviously with the intention of getting himself banned – or at least I hope that was his intent, I’d hate to think he really was that much of a jerk. I have removed those posts and granted his wish.

  22. Rocket, 50% of new IBOs never even place an order after registering. Are you suggesting we consider the possibility those folk worked hard for months to learn and work the business?

  23. Just yesterday I was talking to someone (not at all affiliated with Amway/Quixtar) about foreclosures and such.

    A knowledgable gentleman involved in multi-million dollar real estate deals.

    Veeeerry interesting information on the whys someone, who has the money, would allow propery to go in to pre-foreclosure and even foreclosure.

  24. rocket,

    I am asking for details, not bleeding heart stories of nothingness.

    You won’t even answer simple questions of when and for how long you were an IBO.


  25. Nobody could be expected to know any particular ABO’s business activity any more than you would be able. The only thing that seems to be consistent is that there is a MASSIVE turnover rate. Why? Overpriced products? Opportunity isn’t what was presented? Lack of faith in the company? Leaders? Products? Felt misled? Seems to be all hype?

    Bridgett it is rather supercilious of you to deduce that people did nothing to build their business and that’s why they failed.

    You would fit in perfectly with many of the problems already prevalent in Amway with that attitude…blame the quitter.

    It couldn’t possibly be the business itself, after all, we’re smarter than everyone, right?

  26. Charming. Did you have those kind of brilliant people skills when you were in the business?

    That would certainly explain why some folk have a bad impression of Amway …

  27. I dont have to take this crap from this b-tch. She started this garbage. She’s a quitter like the rest of us and acting all high and mighty. She’s nothing more than a ugly old bitch and should shut her ugly old trap

    Aug 24th, 2008 at 7:35 pm


    Who are you talking to?

    Your use of pronouns, among other things, makes it nearly impossible to understand what you are saying.

    Go back to your MySpace, Jolie Fan Club, and Hair Loss Forums. Those are a much better fit for you, honey.

  28. Rocket, I’m no expert on US real estate, I’m simply reporting what the “real estate expert” that wrote to Larsen said, though I did not Larsen has reported them as foreclosures, whereas the documents he published clearly say “preforeclosure”.

    Some key parts from the “real estate expert” –

    I have seen situations like this where a person has had a dispute with a mortgage company and stopped making payments until things were resolved. It does happen. I seriously doubt that these properties will get foreclosed on.

    I would again say that I seriously doubt these properties will be foreclosed on. “Pre-foreclosure” is simply a state of default where the lien holders issue both public and private notices that they intend to exercise their legal rights of foreclosure IF the mortgagee does not bring the loans current, plus any interest and penalties. I calculated a total approximate tax assessed value of $4.2 million, and a default judgment of just over $1.5 million (according to that website.) Tax assessments usually are slightly below market value to, sometimes, well below market value. I would bet that there is close to $5 million in real estate there. If he had to, Greg could sell them quickly at 50 cents on the dollar and still pocket over $750,000 AFTER paying the lien holders and the closing costs, commissions, etc.

    So while it’s clearly a “failure to make payments”, or at least one payment, it just as clearly does not imply a lack of money. Indeed the second paragraph I quoted above suggests this is almost certainly not the case.

  29. I also want to see this quitter losers calender. He probably didnt even poured his heart into this business. I bet this person Johns talking about did even less than bridgett & me lol. Of course me and bridgett for whatever reason decided not to put efford into building this business;)

    May I see their calendar and see what they were doing to “pour their hearts into the business”?

  30. pokerpooner,

    Who are you talking to?

    Your use of pronouns, among other things, makes it nearly impossible to understand what you are saying.

    Go back to your MySpace, Jolie Fan Club, and Hair Loss Forums. Those are a much better fit for you, honey.


  31. IBOFB are you suggesting that this isn’t a lack of money nor a failure to make payments?

    Maybe not, but you sure like throwing garbage at the wall of facts to muddy the waters and see what sticks.

  32. john,

    Translate for me what “poured their hearts into the business”.

    What does that mean in terms of actual, measurable, activity?

    May I see their calendar and see what they were doing to “pour their hearts into the business”?

    Thinking about the business and DOING the business are two entirely different activities.

  33. John, according to some guy who wrote to Larsen it’s apparently “pre-foreclosure”, not foreclosure, and is not uncommon if there is a disputes with the bank.

    Are you suggesting wealthy people should just ignore getting screwed by a bank because they can afford to?

  34. No you just smarten up like the rest of us lol. Word it however you want. You are a quitter and some will some wont so what lmao?

    No john. I don’t “fire” them. Just like my Upline hasn’t fired me when I’ve chosen FOR WHATEVER REASON, LAME OR UNLAME, not to put in the effort.

  35. Visioneer,
    Does personal responsibility include making your house payment if you “proclaim to thousands” that you are a financially free diamond? Just a simple yes or no would be good.

    Yes I do know more more than a few IBOs who poured their hearts into “the business” and after years of labor were still losing money. I don’t think it is so much their fault as they honestly poured their hearts into it. I think much fault lies at the feet of the kingins who for the last 7 years have been proclaiming how the Quixtar business is “exploding” & critical mass is about to “be obtained.” For 7 years, low level IBOs have been told that Quixtar has been exploding. Both Duncan and Puryear exaggerated so bad in saying that this business would likely be a $100 billion business in 5 years. Now the truth has been admitted by Alticor that Quixtar has been completely stagnant. Thus they want to go back to “Amway” but try to make it look new by calling it “Amway Global”.
    So when new IBOs are consistend lied to about the growth of the business, they can work their hearts out. I can cite the quotes of Puryear and Duncan if you like. Their predictions only missed by about 99%. That is the selling of a false hope.

  36. john,

    It’s estimated that only 20% of IBO’s in a “system” ever go to a function. Of that, an even smaller percentage decide to go Platinum or Diamond. Of that small percentage, an even smaller percentage actually go out and DO the WORK!!

    3 frogs are on a log, one decides to jump off. How many are left? The answer is 3, one only decided, he still has to act and jump off.

    Once again, you seem to place the blame on the business or the system. As Bridgett pointed out, personal responsibility is the key.

  37. John, I’ve no personal experience with WWDB.

    Are you claiming that *everyone* in WWDB joins with the active #1 goal of going Diamond? That people aren’t even allowed to join if they just want to be platinum (the $50,000/yr) or Emerald or even just make $100/mth? And are you claiming that if they change their goal or priorities at some time, that WWDB makes them resign?

    What happens exactly when someone decides they don’t want to put in the dedication to go Diamond and are happy with something smaller?

  38. So john…

    From your very personal experience, do you have someone who has consistantly “showed the plan” to 10 potential IBOships every month for 24 months?

    That IS part of the “proven system”, yes?

    And what were their results?
    As I’ve said before, all those thousands of people dancing to the GOADS like the IDEA of “freedom”, but how many of them are actually doing anything to move their businesses forward once they leave that function?

    From MY personal experience, I’ve met many IBOs who attend functions that you’ve mentioned who are very clear that Diamond is NOT their goal–at least not intially.
    BTW, from what you are writing, I question when was the last time you were at a function, because yes,the Diamonds do talk about building a diamondship, BUT their main focus that they talk about is building a Rubyship.

    When was the last time you attended a function, john?

  39. IBOfightback,

    How many times have you heard the plan as presented by a WWDB IBO? How many WWDB rallies did you sit in to learn how to present “the plan”? How many times have you sat at a WWDB function and listened to the diamonds? To be honest, unless you have been there (and I have numerous times) then you are the one being a bit arrogant in thinking you know what they teach. If you were at any of the FEDs then you would know that the Goads (their musical motivational group) never sings about just making a few extra bucks. The sing and people jump un and down over who the next diamond is going to be. And every single speaker stands and talks of what “this business” is all about. The rallies have absolutely nothing to do with just making a few extra bucks; it is all about doing CORE and going diamond. It is about saying goodbye to the job; it is about financial freedom; it is about mansions and boats; it is about diamond in 2-5 years. In the paper IBOs are taught to prospect with, the questions are, “What would you do with an extra $50,000 this year? What would you do if you were making $250,000 in the next 5 years?
    So be honest. How many WWDB functions have you attended and how many WWDB plans have you heard? I am speaking from very personal experience. You call it arrogance; I call it sharing my experience.

  40. The above should’ve read:

    The difference between a teaching System and your lame school example, is that in a teaching System like WWDB they don’t kick you out when you don’t follow the “curriculum”.

  41. john,

    The difference between a teaching System and your lame school example, is that in a teaching System like WWDB they don’t kick you out when you doing follow the “curriculum”.

    And as an Upline who have plenty people beat their chests, claiming that they will “be CORE” no matter what, and then get side-tracked by the itiest bitiest thing, what should I do with those people, john?

    Fire them? Kick ’em out?

    No john. I don’t “fire” them. Just like my Upline hasn’t fired me when I’ve chosen FOR WHATEVER REASON, LAME OR UNLAME, not to put in the effort.

    We encourage people, we love them, we believe in them, and we stick by them, just like I do with my children, because we know that we can’t force them to do anything.

    It’s must be their decision, not mine.

    And, just like a parent sees their kids make stupid mistakes, just like a parent sees so much untapped potential, all I can do be there to uplift and encourage and be an example.

    They have enough people in their lives, including people like you and all the critics online, telling them that they can’t or that it’s not possible or it’s not worth it, so don’t even try and blah blah blah.

    I choose to be a different voice.

  42. John, you have incredible arrogance to pretend to know what other people’s goals are. Someone may have a goal simply to buy some products and sell a few occasionally. They do so successfully – yet here are you calling them “lazy and unwilling to work”.

    Neither you, nor I, get to decide what other peoples goals or priorities are.

  43. Bridgett,

    What elementary school, high school or college would still be open if 99.5% of the students didn’t accomplish the target of graduating? Also, you didn’t answer my question. Do you think that 99.5% of all IBOs are just lazy and unwilling to work? And it you are in WWDB, and if you are CORE and if you have been working, have you reached diamond status in 2-5 years? Because that is exactly what they teach their “proven system of success” is all about.

  44. john said,
    “Or is that these great “motivatal” speakers and teachers can’t even inspire 1% of their downline to work enough to be diamond in 2-5 years?”

    LOL! Oh WOW!!!! I cannot believe you said that. LOL. You are blaming Diamonds for other people’s lack of effort.

    So I guess you are not a lover of personal responsibility?


    Oh how I wish each prospective IBO had to go through an interview process before they were allowed to be sponsored.

    Oh how I wish it took more than 59 bucks and a heartbeat to start an Amway business…

    LOL. Oh john, you are too funny. 🙂

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.