In the comments of the post More Clueless Amway Critics, one of the subjects of the post, Amway critic pokerpooner, decided to add his side of the story into the comments. In my opinion all he successfully did was prove the point of the post – he’s clueless about the Amway business, how it works, and it’s potential as a business. Later in the discussion, when I asked him to provide some evidence to back up some claims he was making, he simply became abusive. In my experience Amway critics often require supporters of the Amway business to be able to provide incontrovertible proof of any claims. Indeed on more than one occasion I’ve been told that Amway Corporation is not an acceptable source for Amway sales data, since they’re probably lying about it. 🙄 Ask them for some evidence to back up their claims however, and all of a sudden they want to change the subject.
During the discussion with pokerpooner I happened across another example of the kind of claims that Amway critics make that are clearly, and provably, clueless. Scott Larsen on his Amquix site regularly posts collections of emails he’s received from his visitors. I actually analysed several months of this once and discovered that only a third of those he posted were actually of people with a negative experience. Another third were people supporting the business (and I know he doesn’t publish all of those, since he didn’t publish one of mine) – but the remaining third or so were prospects and brand new IBOs who had decided not to join/quit because of what they had read on his site – clear evidence of the damage being caused by the Internet War against Amway. Here is an example of the kind of idle, clueless, gossip they read –
It appears that emerald Mike Waechter maybe quitely losing his Emerald ship and may have to resume his job back at Allied insurance. This is a big deal because in the fall of 2002 he had a big retirement party featuring more than 1,000 Quixtar distributors, many of who came close to disturbuting the peace of a Des Moines insurance agency.
This was part of an email from “john” that Scott Larsen published in a section headed Site Visitor E-Mail Oct – Dec 2005. Mike Waechter was an IBO in the LTD organisation, downline of double diamonds Joe & Marybeth Markiewicz. “John” even backed up his claim about the supposedly parlous nature of the Waechter business with the name of a Ruby in the Waechter downline whom John claimed had file for bankruptcy and quit Amway. Was any of this true? How would a reader know? Amway businesses do fall out of qualification, so it’s certainly plausible. There’s just one small problem for John’s credibility. You see, according to Larsen, this letter was sent sometime in October, November, or December of 2005. As readers of Achieve magazine and would soon find out, and IBOs in LTD most likely already knew – Mike & Jana Waechter didn’t fall out of Emerald qualification then: they had just qualified as new Diamonds!
Another clueless Amway critic. It’s sad so many people believe them.
Visioneer,
Please reread my comment. I said I asked our platinum who asked our emerald who supposedly asked our diamond Yhat is a quote from my previous post and if you read it again you will see the answer I received. I didn’t just quit. I recognize that is the new (and old) mantra of WWDB. I’ll say it again, I didn’t just quit. Now, can you please try to explain the logic of WWDB teaching IBOs to pay retail to themselves. Any accountant in the world will tell you that this teaching will cause the IBO to lose money. Please just answer the question. And maybe you can refer it to the IBOAI. I have an email from the IBOAI telling me they would get back to me on a nother issue. Guess what, it is months old and I still haven’t heard anything from them. So, please just answer the question. Maybe TWS or Bridgett can help you out.
john,
Once again, did you bring up these concerns with your upline when you were in the business? In other words, did you try to make the business better while you were in it? Or did you just quit and decide to start writing negative posts?
rocket,
I guess you don’t recognize sarcasm when you see it? 🙂
Also, your statement of people losing money is off base. MANY people get in just to buy the products. I have personal experience on this. Which you don’t by the way. All some people want to do is buy a few products a month or a year sometimes. They have no intention of turning a profit.
john,
Without going into the details, you can file an adjustment on your tax returns for the profit so you don’t get taxed twice. When were you in the business and for how long? It seems like you were poorly informed or possibly you don’t listen very well.
I remember well WWDB teaching to pay retail to yourself (because it is your business). I also remember explaining to our platinum that means our money was taxed when we earned it. And to pay retail to ourself means that we have to claim it as profit and be taxed on it again. Of course he had to ask our Emerald who apparently asked our diamond. The answer I received: Yes, it is true that you are taxed twice but it is worth it because it shows your business is growing.
Here is the kicker, WWDB taught to pay retail to yourself (a very dumb instruction) and of course they taught to keep investing in your own business this way and by purchasing more tools. Aahh! Yes, of course, — so we can purchase more tools.
Visioneer and TWX, you act like there are only a couple of people who have had negative experiences with Am/QUix. I can assure you there are multitudes. Maybe one of you guys can explain why WWDB would teach paying retail to yourself when it makes you pay taxes twice on the same money (when you originally earned through a legetimate income and now when you pay retail to yourself)?
Visioneer, I’m surprised to hear tapespeak come out of you. Amway is a vendor for those other companies, no more, no less. Don’t try to talk it into something it isn’t.
TWS, I respect the fact that you see the positive, and I have no doubt Amway is changing. Understand, literally MILLIONS of people have had the same experience I have. I would need to see A LOT more than the rhetoric that comes out of it’s supporters.
Long story short, more people have LOST money in Amway then have been successful at it.
Rocket,
Like I’ve mentioned, I recognize that you and others have had an unfortunate experience with this opportunity and thus, have problems trusting Amway Global and the people involved. And you want to “save” everybody from having the same experience you did. But how do you know they will? Maybe they’ll have the same positive experiencces my wife and I have had. Both personally and financially. Obviously, there is two sides to every story. And I’m pretty confident I’m aware of the negative side, possibly even more than you are. But why don’t you spend just a fraction of your time finding out why people are positive about this business. I think you’d be suprised that we all haven’t been duped. That we’re not all mindless droids following the leader for the sake of chasing money. I don’t know if I’m smarter than you, and frankly, I don’t care. But I encourage people to realize there are two sides to that ‘thar elephant. 🙂
rocket,
And you must be the smartest person ever! Why you must be smarter than the millions of people around the world that are involved in this business! You must be smarter than the attorneys of all our Partner stores who checked this business out to see if it would be a good partnership! You must be smarter than all the attorneys we already have in this business and the one’s that will start up in it soon! You must be smarter than the U.S. Chamber of Commerce!
John is one of millions of people who do not trust Amway or the opportunity.
Obviously, those of us that feel that way MUST be wrong.
Amway people are so much smarter than the rest of us! Hell, they have been known to buy from themselves at retail! How great is that!
The people that look for the best value and don’t listen to hype are on a collision course with mediocrity.
Bridgett,
John may still be a “concerned” friend of an IBO, but he references attending a WWDB function. I assumed he was at one point involved.
John,
Since it was brought up… What has been your personal involvement with the business? When did you sign up? How long were you “active”? Considering your comments on the past couple posts, that seems like a fair question.
John,
Training, mentoring, motiviating and personal development are all billion dollar industries. There is nothing wrong with creating a profit off a service that’s provided. Very typical thought process of wanting something for nothing. Here’s your fish sir, see you again tomorrow. And the next day, and the next…
I’d be willing to bet that if someone like yourself was given a “special deal” and were able to use a support system for absolutely free. And all your downline were able to use it for free, you still wouldn’t be successful in this business. You would find something else to complain about and blame why this business is “bad”. The price of the tools and the profits that can come from them are completely irrelevant to an individuals success.
I have my doubts that john was every an IBO.
He’s been hanging around online for a while.
My first introduction of “john” was over at the Alticor Media Blog. Also have seen his posts at the Amway Blog.
His signature is “poor college students and single moms”.
One of his last posts over at the
Amway Blog indicates he’s a “concerned” friend of IBOs.
But, I could be wrong.
🙂
john,
FYI, I am not a Platinum, yet. Just another rank and file IBO who has WORKED his business to a profitable level using the tools I believe I needed for my business. If I didn’t believe I needed them, I wouldn’t use them.
If someone profits off of these tools, I think that’s great! That’s Free Enterprise at work! It’s a win/win situation. I get an awesome value for the tools I choose to use, they get a profit that they can choose to re-invest in their company or not.
Just look at the costs of one of our 4 page color brochures. It’s .30. I cannot go down to Kinko’s and make a copy of that for less than $4.00. Not only that, it had to go through Quixtar’s legal department to get approved. That takes time and money to have it done right. It took time and money to develop it in the first place before it got sent off to Quixtar.
We have merchandising popup cards that runs the full line of exclusive brand products. We can order 20 of them for $20. I wouldn’t even begin to know how to do that. They are high quality and extremely attractive. I’m sure that also had to go through Quixtar. If I tried to do something like that on my own, it would cost me hundreds of dollars.
I have a distance leg on the East coast. They can tie into functions there to get trained up. If I had to fly there all the time…again, more time and money out of my pocket. I’ve used my kate to do video conferencing with them. Have you ever priced a video conferencing package with Mega meetings?
As TWS said, I’m sorry if you had a bad experience, but you’re systems are evil mindset is extremely off base.
John, visioneer, Bridgett (and other past/present WWDB IBOs)
I copied a portion of this discussion about thoughts and experiences of being an IBO affiliated with WWDB and posted it at amwaytalk.com:
http://www.amwaytalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116
I thought this would be a good place to continue discussions and make it available for others to read, vs. it being lost in this thread over time.
john,
Thanks for the title! But from your comments it really doesn’t take a Doctor to see how you feel. It’s quite apparent.
And once again, calling someone a loser isn’t in my vocabulary. You’re the one who’s saying that I said that.
Thanks superseiyan. You should have seen the comments from PokerPooner that I didn’t let through! I might do a post about them, just so folk get the “full” picture so to speak.
IBOFightback, thank you for publically giving it right back.
If IBOs are going to see some of the vitirol against IBOs and our business, resources like this are absolutely useful and essential for them to see and make their own decisions.
Keep up your internet presence, and keep fighting for the other side. It’s needed.
John said:
“What could have possibly been the cause of it taking so long? Are things on the accreidation platform that need to be negotiated? The platform doesn’t demand much of an organization.”
You’re obviously naive to whats involved with accrediting an organization that size. The only hickup so far was a communication breakdown about the new QBOB lieterature replacing the SA4400. Because the new form is very different from the legal form of the past, some IBOs weren’t aware of its proper use. Aside from that, I believe the corp. is experiencing some bottle-necking on their end.
Just because the process is taking longer than some would like, doesn’t prove there are major legal/transparency issues. WWDB has been very pro-accredidation from the begining. The fact that the accredidation process isn’t just a “slam dunk”, tells me there is some real substance behind it, and ALL parties are taking it seriously. So much for your conspiracy theory. 🙂
Bridgett –
Regardless of the bluster some are trying to force feed us, the fact is your downline made and will continue to make a huge profit from our business model. Assuming they only sold edibles, to get an $11.34 bonus means they had retail volume of about $445. Wholesale cost would be about $365 so they made a retail profit/savings of $80 plus their $11.34 bonus = $91 total income. That is a 20% cash pay out on sales! Other coreline products would generate even better numbers. Subtract the $50 spent on the monthly access to the website that is still a $41 profit, or a 9% net cash profit. And this was accomplished without any of the normal start up costs of business. Many a business would kill for those kinds of numbers.
and john,
Having personally helped one of those college kids
(that you so desperately want to save from the evil Amway and the evil Systems)
build a profitable Platinumship, I am proud of what I do and I will “brag” about it until the cows come home.
That college kid went Platinum as a single, and is now married and he and his wife have recently gone on to Ruby.
You continue with your cause, “friend”,
and
I will continue with mine.
Bridgett out.
john,
You are choosing to address only part of my comments
as well as
negate current facts that IBOs make profit in the Amway business when they treat it like a business and not a job.
The more I get around business owners–not just ones affiliated with Amway but all in my community at the Chamber of Commerce and such– it is truly striking to me the difference in the way business owners think and approach life compared to other people I get around who have jobs.
Not just in business, but in ALL areas of their lives. Personal responsibility is rampant among the business owners.
Blame, hyperbole, and deflection is rampant among those with jobs.
As I’ve said many times online: oh how I wish it took more than $59 and a heartbeat to get registered.
As I’ve said many times online: the problem with this business is that people are so eager to sponsor others, that there are too many “IBOs” that simply are not qualified to own a business and are not willing to learn the skillsets (including how one thinks)to become qualified.
*sigh*
IBOfightback,
You stated that WWDB might already be accredited. So your knowledge base is obviously limited. TWS debunked the possibility that they are already accredited. If you read the accreditation platform, you will see there is nothing that needs to be done except a little transparency.
Bridgett,
Just so I am clear. The IBO you use as your model of your business according to your own words made $11.34 on his bonus check last month but is on Premier. So you would certainly agree that so far he/she is about $45 in the red (not counting any mileage or the inflated price he pays for the product so you can get your 25%. Furthermore, if you are platinum, you took another $7 out of his pocket and put in yours. So tell me again, how is it that you are helping him?
Now the kingpins used to say that Am/Q could pay these bonuses because they didn’t pay for advertising. Can’t say that anymore – AMway Arena, Hello, My name is Quixtar, magazine ads, etc. Maybe they are advertising so much and pushing retail so much because your old, “buy from yourself and teach others todo the same” is what left the Quixtar business stagnant since its inception.
But back to your IBO, he is down about $45. So how are you helping him? And are you helping all of your other downline about the same. If so, and if you have a hundred downline (likely you do at the 25% bonus level), then if they are all like him, your downline is down about $4500 for the month. What is it you are bragging about?
John asked re accreditation –
What could have possibly been the cause of it taking so long?
Clearly you have no idea what getting accredited involves. Go ask Quixtar, since I’m sure you won’t believe us.
If, if, if, if John.
What about the retail profit he made on the 90+ PV he did?
Yes he is on Premier because our websites rock. In other words, HE FINDS VALUE IN SOMETHING THE “EVIL” SYSTEM OFFERS.
(for the record,this IBO is not on Kate and does not purchase CDs or books)
The guideline from my evil system is get people making money in the first 30 days.
And, even if he weren’t making a profit right off the bat, it’s a business not a job, yes? Different animals, john.
“my friend”, you write stuff on the Internet and talk in generalities and mislead people in doing so.
People onlne act like I’m some special exception. I am not. I am following the guidelines of my Upline and my System.
In other words, I am DOING something with my business.
Oh, that reminds me, I need to send an email to a neighbor who just bought a bottle of the Chewable Concentrated Fruits and Vegetables from me.
Bridgett,
If that IBO you mention made $11.34, and is doing what WWDB teaches as CORE, he spent about 15 times that much on Premier, his CDs, cost to attend rally, Kate, his book of the month and ofcourse his product samples and brochures.
So his net loss so far is probably about $140 (actually more considering mileage to functions, etc). So tell me again how you are helping him. And then tell me why me again why if you are doing so well with A/Q you need to also profit from selling him tools.
Are you now going to say “shame on you!” for ripping off that “struggling IBO” for $83.17?
Should I have given him that money, john?
Maybe a few cases of XS?
Oh you’re a hoot!
😉
john,
Number 1: You are pulling numbers out of the sky
and
Number 2: You are not giving a full picture–incomes and expenses.
and
Number 3:You think 7 bucks is a lot of money?
For the sake of putting numbers in context let me share with you some REAL numbers;
Last month, a personally sponsored IBO of ours ran 145.68 PV and 378.05 BV in personal and customer volume.
He has not sponsored anyone.
So his entire business is in the 3% bracket.
3% of the BV = $11.34
His bonus money was $11.34.
I am entitled to the differential between his bonus bracket (3%) and my bonus bracket (25%) = 22% of the BV.
Are ya tracking so far?
Therefore, I made $83.17 off of that business.
$83.17 (Amway money) is almost 12 times your 7 bucks.
Dr. Visioneer,
You are incredibly typical in your tape speak. It is the same thing the diamonds say from stage. Critics are angry and bitter; losers. In reality, it is you who bitterly and angerly defends this WWDB system that has hurt untold numbers of people.
As one of those who is there to help young IBOs build their business, tell me: Why does a platinum get $7 a month from each of his downline who is on Premier. In all of WWDB, surely there are 15,000 IBOs building trying to build their business and using Premier. 15,000 at $7 a piece is $105,000 a month leaving the pockets of struggling IBOs and going into the pockets of platinums. That is over $1 million a year leaving the pockets of struggling IBOs and going into the pockets of platinums. Why? And that doesn’t even take into account how much is going into the pockets, of emeralds, diamonds and of course Mr. Duncan and Mr. Puryear. You say it is to help these IBOs. I say it is taking millions of dollars from them. Why not provide your CDS, tapes, functions, Premier, books, Family Reunions, FEDs at cost? You say it takes all of these things to build a successful business. You don’t provide them at cost because the income you derive from Am/Q would never be enough to justify the huge amount of time you spend promoting tools. Therefore, the Am/Quix business does not stand on its own.
So tell me, why are millions of dollars being taken out of the pockets of the young college kids and moms and going into the pociets of the platinums and above for tools?
You say I complain of things of the past, but this is what is happening right now.
TWS,
john is just showing what he is. Just another negative/destructive critic who is not interested in the positives of the business. He’s only interested in any “negative” he can find.
His perception of a “negative” however, is off base.
He’s driven by anger and bitterness.
TWS,
What could have possibly been the cause of it taking so long? Are things on the accreidation platform that need to be negotiated? The platform doesn’t demand much of an organization.
WWDB and its CEO (Dick Davis) are very much on track with the accredidation process. Some minor communications have taken place via voicemail finalizing things. I wouldn’t be surprised if an official announcement comes down soon.
John/Rocket,
Thanks for proving my point with your “genuine” response. I’m very aware that this business and the people involved aren’t perfect. I’m also aware that there are many examples of people misusing this opportunity, whether it be intentionally or not. I also recognize that I’ve been very fortunate to be in business with the people I’m in business with, considering some of the horror stories I’ve heard/read about in other LOAs. So I’m very aware of the “other” (negative) side of the story. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that most platinums have lived/seen more junk than most of the critics. But what never ceases to amaze me, is the unwillingness for critics to admit that the “other” (positive) side even exists.
How do you know WWDB is not accredited? I’ve heard at least one organisation is accredited but has elected not to announce it yet. Who and why, I don’t know. I also know many non-affiliated platinums who have been accredited, they also hasn’t been announced. Q* has also admitted not dedicating enough resources to accreditation so some groups may be delayed in receiving it, but since it’s Q* fault this will be taken in to account. Personally I think they shouldn’t. Folk should have joined the accreditation process before it effectively became compulsory.
I don’t have “all knowledge” but facts are facts, and that lawsuit is wrong about Amway consisting of 3 LOSs, Britt/Yager/Puryear. Even you know more than that, don’t you?
Of course the “diamond who has been there” doesn’t know what he is talking about. Only you have all knowledge. Only you who has actually did what it took to reach diamond level of success, right. In other words, you are still just 1 of the 8300 who fail to reach diamond. But you have all the knowledge of how the diamonds do it and where their money comes from.
Let me ask you a question and try to give an honest answer. Why isn’t WWDB accredited with Quixtar Accreditation? It seems like they have had plenty of time to receive their accreditation. Don’t you think? Are they going to let their platinums etc. lose out on bonuses? Is that caring about the downline? Or is it that that they make so much money off of tools that they don’t want to be transparent & will just reimburse the lost Amway bonus money with tools money? What do you think?
The Hart case provides no such evidence. It one of the cases make claims against someone else – it accuses “kingpins” of making incomes 9:1 and explicitly names them as Yager, Britt, and Puryear. Later he adds “the Gooch kingpins”. It is about specific leaders, not rank and file Diamonds, what’s more, despite your claim, nowhere in the complaint does it give any evidence about Hart’s business.
The complaint also claims as fact –
“There are three primary lines of sponsorship within the Amway business, each giving rise to at least three separate pyramids within the tool and function business. These three lines of sponsorship provide Amway with the substantial part of its annual sales, if not virtually all of such sales. These three lines of sponsorship are: Dexter Yager, Bill Britt and Ronald Puryear.”
This is completely false. Puryear, Britt, and Yager are all in the same Amway LOS, which is one of 12. Britt is downline of Yager, and Yager and Puryear share Marsh as an upline, who is in the Hansen LOS, just one of the 12.
This “diamond who has been there” doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Furthermore, his complaint is against specific people who own BSM companies and who are involved directly in production of the materials. Your accusations include rank-and-file Diamonds who do nothing more than resell these materials.
IBOfightback,
Have you not read the Brig Hart/Nitro vs. Amway case. Here is a kingpin himself stating in a court declaration that tool income exceeds Amway income atleast 9 to 1. That is nine times more. And that is coming not from a sidebar commentator, but from a kingpin himself. All you have to do is google Hart vs.Amway et al and you will find many more amazing declarations (not by an armchair commentator) but by a kingpin who has the records to prove it. You could also try the Morrison case out of Texas. For someone who spends so much time sharing your vast knowledge of Amway/Quixtar, you certainly don’t seem to want to listen to diamonds who have been there.
And again, I answer # 2, the more effort an IBO puts into blindly following the kingpins, the longer he is in bondage.
Well, I call that answer FAIL. It was a simple question John, why so much spinning in the answer?
Regarding court documents, there is only 3 that I’m aware of with tool income “evidence”. One is a transcrip with Robert Dickie indicating Woodward’s TEAM income was over a million. Woodward himself said it was 4-5 times his Amway income.
Another is Trevor Chatham’s, indicating his IDA income, including speaking fees, was about the same as his Amway income (not exactly “vast majority”)
A third was Ted Fish, and it showed he made stuff all in speaking fees.
So which “court documents” are you talking about exactly? There’s a few where, in the complaint, platinums claim the emeralds and above make all this money. Then there’s emeralds complaining diamonds are making all this money. Then there’s diamonds complaining other diamonds are making all this money.
So 2 out of the 3 which have actual evidence, rather than just accusations, indicate that there was nothing like the “vast majority” you claim.
Still, this is all you just trying to sidetrack. I’ll ask the question again, and I’d appreciate a straight answer –
(2) how much does what an IBO does affect their return from Amway?
IBOfightback,
Answer #1 – I didn’t have to do anything. I just bought it and then sold it at a higher price.
Answer #2 – The longer an IBO blindly trusts his deceiving diamonds, the longer he stays in bondage. The sooner he realizes that the kingpins make the vast majority of their money from tools, the sooner he is set free. And the revelation of kingpins making the vast majority of their income from tools is no longer disputable. Spin it any way you want but the court documents (the only way the truth ever comes out) clearly show this to be true.
john, 2 questions. In your opinion,
(1) how much does what you do affect your returns from say, Nortel?
(2) how much does what an IBO does affect their return from Amway?
Chester,
Your scenario would have placed me with the 99% of IBOs who also would have lost money. By the way, I think you speak of Nortel. I did quite well with Nortel.
Hey John, I don’t think your stock analogy works very well. Back in 2001 the darling of the Cdn market was selling for $120 a share… today it’s listed at 58 cents. (Consilidation accounted for) If you had bought and done nothing with it, as you suggested, you would have lost a bundle.
Rocket, I’m truly sorry that your up-line/LOA took advantage of you. IBOs certainly aren’t perfect. Maybe they thought they were doing the right thing. Maybe they were jerks. I think things are changing for the better in the business. I know at least I’m changing for the better. However, I do have a long way to go. If enough of us IBOs keep growing and getting better, the business will get better.
I believe that it takes a certain kind of person, with a certain kind of character and skill set to build a successful Amway business. Anyone can develop into that kind of person if they want to.
Ajgannon,
I don’t disagree with anything you said.
It’s a “trackback” – it means he linked to the article on one of his posts.
Why is there a link to Amthrax at the bottom of this thread? Is it relevant to this blog article?
I know some IBOs, members of my family, who are perfectly happy making very little in the form of bonus checks from Quixtar/Amway Global. They want the products, they want them at the lower prices, and they like getting a bonus check based on their personal volume. I’ve tried to discourage them from remaining IBOs and switch to being a customer, but it didn’t work.
John, investing money in stocks is a different deal compared to investing in a business that depends on your own activity, commitment, efforts, skills, ethics, and desires. The Microsoft stock example doesn’t require your involvement at all, just your money. A certain amount of money will produce the same return in the hands of a variety of different people. The same amount of money invested in the Amway business will create very different results in the hands of different people, because of all the factors that vary among different people. I can think of a few more factors besides the ones I listed in the first sentence: personal hygiene, health, debt level, ambition, beliefs, people skills, number of contacts stored in your cell phone, sphere of influence, willingness to serve, available time, etc. None of these factors affect the results obtained from investing $100 in a Microsoft stock.
IBOFightback,
The $250,000 for a diamond is also calculated in the average $115 (back in 2001 but now more like $83). So for every diamond, there has to be 2173 IBOs who are making zero. Do you know that every single person who invested $100 in Microsoft (I could name a hundred other stocks)in 1995 and then did absolutely nothing has watched their investment gorw hundreds of percentage points? That is every sinlge person! Now in contrast, of all those who have invested not only money, but also time and energy in A/Q – about 99% have not made a penny.
john,
Why don’t you just build the business without tools? Then you can show everyone how to do it.
john,
Once again, did you to talk to your upline about your concerns or did you just quit and start negative posts?
I can see there’s a market for a course in comprehending sarcasm. How much would you pay for such a course, rocket?
No rocket, Amway doesn’t give you money for that. However your big fat $0 will be included in the calculations of average income, since by asking your bro that, once in a year, with no result, you’re considered “active”.
comprende?