Last year a user posted the following great video on youtube of Amway Malaysia’s first Founders Crown Ambassadors – Charlie Lee Kim Soon & Linda Ng Kwee Choo –
Yesterday, one of the regular Amway Quixtar critics on the QuixtarBlog forums, pokerpooner, had the following to say about it –
LOL Joecool take a look at this video on youtube. This is the type of lifestyle they try too live. With helicopters,planes,mansions,boats etc. No possible way they can can live that way with a amway or system income
Pokerpooner has nearly 150 posts on these “critics” forums, so he’s not a complete neophyte. But let’s look at his comment on the video – “this is the type of lifestyle the try too live … No possible way they can live that way with a amway or system income”
How much ignorance does this comment reveal? First of all, these folk are Founders Crown Ambassadors. That’s an Amway business that has, at a minimum, either 20 separate Founder’s Platinum legs or 9 legs, each with a Diamond in it. A few years ago Quixtar reported that the average income for Founders Executive Diamond and above (that’s 9 separate Founders Platinum legs and more, less than half a Founders Crown) was in excess of a million dollars a year.
There’s a whole lot of lifestyle that can be bought with an income of more than a million dollars a year. Heck, according to The Millionaire Next Door, the average millionaire has a household income of only around $247,000! A Founders Crown Ambassador likely has an income at least ten times that of the average millionaire.
But that doesn’t really show pokerpooner’s cluelessness about the Amway business as much as this – watch the video. Except for the last section, apparently in their home, all the “helicopters, planes, mansions, boats etc” are part of free, Amway supplied trips! The video clearly labels various Founders Council events, and the yacht highlighted is Amway’s yacht – The Enterprise. They don’t need Amway income or system income to pay for all this stuff, pokerpooner – it’s all free!
It makes you wonder how clueless some critics are about the rest of the Amway business, if they’re not even aware of the free trips included even when they’re clearly labelled in a video.
Comment below or discuss this post on Amway Talk
Dude this proves me point cause we’re told these big pins buy everything without getting loans. I guess that’s why Mr Duncan has a few of his properties forclosed on him. Cause he’s spending money he doesnt have. We go to these functions hearing speakers say they pay everything for cash and no loans etc.
IBOFIGHTSBACK
Someone with an income of $500K+ a year could easily get a loan to buy one, if they wanted to.
Pokerpooner, the average income for Founders EDC and above is over a million dollars a year.
And that’s just from Amway income! I asked before – do you think they hide it under their bed? Or do you think perhaps they invest it and make it *bigger*?
Even so, let’s just halve it for these guys – $500,000/yr (and that’s also assuming they have no businesses outside the US – many large US leaders have separate platinum, emerald and diamond business abroad as well).
Are you telling me someone earning half a million bucks a year can’t afford to live in a “mansion” (however that is defined)?? They can’t afford to lease or take fractional ownership or even outright purchase of a jet? here’s a bunch of cessna jets for sale, many you can get for less than $2million. Someone with an income of $500K+ a year could easily get a loan to buy one, if they wanted to.
I really think you have no idea how much money is available in the Amway business. Even when the $$$ amounts are put in front of you, you simply can’t accept them because you have this tiny little picture of Amway in your head and damned if you’ll let reality change it.
As a EDC crawford and wilson income is bigger than the averge diamond but common how can he afford jets,mansions,etc? They shouldnt be making ridiculous income claims. IBOfightsback you are just trying to knit pick what we say. We all know many of the big pins lie about their wealth. But you knit pick at what we post.
rocket
Aug 22nd, 2008 at 7:19 pm
To name a couple:
Mark & Tami Crawford, now in Monavie with Orrin Woodward’s ilk.
Don & Nancy Wilson as EDC’s
I’m sure you have a retort ready, the simple fact is, that’s what they did.
Among many others. It still goes on you know.
In spite of what you would like others to believe.
You’ve just proved my point. Every time I ask for an example of a Diamond promoting something like this, I’m given examples of people with businesses significantly bigger than Diamond
Crawford’s went EDC. Wilson’s went Double Diamond.
If it’s so damn common as you suggest – why do people always give examples from non-Diamonds????
To name a couple:
Mark & Tami Crawford, now in Monavie with Orrin Woodward’s ilk.
Don & Nancy Wilson as EDC’s
I’m sure you have a retort ready, the simple fact is, that’s what they did.
Among many others. It still goes on you know.
In spite of what you would like others to believe.
pokerpooner, (1) the Nitro case was dismissed. (2) I’m talking about the Amway business, not Nitro Distributing Inc etc., I’ve no idea how they run their business. (3) Joecool was mentioned as a meaningless aside, YOU, not me, turned it into a focus
rocket – which Diamond have you seen portraying those kind of extravagent lifestyles?
Enough said gonna go watch the olympics and enjoy my day:P
Of course i was responding to thetruthaboutamways comment that you can earn the system fees by moving up. Im sure there are some profitable business in amway without a system.
Thetruthaboutamway said:
Everything, including Founders Crown Ambassador incomes and trips, heck, even BSM profit and speaking fees – it’s all available to you, and pretty much anyone else who is willing to learn and work long enough and hard enough.
Where’s the deceit?
pokerpooner said “You add in the expenses of the amway business and without the tool business there really isnt much money to be made.”
How would you know? I’ve been building a profitable business for years without tool income!
You do have a point there are many people who dont care for those toys. But people look at the potential of the business and dont realize majority of income comes from tools and system income. Like my previous post you can lose this system income in a hurry if you’re not careful. You add in the expenses of the amway business and without the tool business there really isnt much money to be made.
“If majority of the people knew that these big pins like triple diamond dont own alot of these toys. They would never join that’s the bottom line.”
I disagree. A majority of people don’t care much about the toys in the first place. Let alone, if they own it or if its a perk. Most people start building this business for a lot simplier reasons. Like bringing your wife home. Private education for kids. Have some breathing room at the end of the month, etc. But as you begin to expand your dream, you get excited about having a nicer lifestyle. But by that time you’re well aware of the perks.
That’s not exactly true you can work as hard make it to triple,crown,etc and have your tool income taken from you. Of course these bigwig distibutor had to find other sources mlm opportunities after they where screwed over. I love how you put your spin into things and make it seem ok with the lies. Of course you wanna change subjects now and talk about Joecool and his immoral behavior. I get a whole bunch of stupid prviate messages from you.
For example from amquix.info site:
8/5/2003: Case No. 03-3290-CV, US District Court, Western Missouri
NITRO DISTRIBUTING, INC.; WEST PALM CONVENTION SERVICES, INC.; NETCO, INC.; SCHMITZ & ASSOCIATES, INC.; and U-CAN-II, INC. (plaintiffs are the tool’s businesses of a Crown, a Double Diamond, and a Diamond IBOs)
vs.
ALTICOR, INC., AMWAY CORPORATION, and QUIXTAR, INC.
Summary: The tape and seminar businesses of Crown Kenny Stewart, Double Diamond Brig Hart, Diamond, and Charlie Schmitz sue Amway/Quixtar/Alticor for anti-trust violations related to the tools business. The plaintiffs allege that the Corporation conspired with and supported other IBOs in the take over and demise of plaintiff’s motivational support businesses.
The case is still on going. Alticor is trying to force arbitration.
Thetruthaboutamway said:
Everything, including Founders Crown Ambassador incomes and trips, heck, even BSM profit and speaking fees – it’s all available to you, and pretty much anyone else who is willing to learn and work long enough and hard enough.
Where’s the deceit?
“I’ve never seen anything that even remotely implies that a Diamond (not EDC, not Triple, not Crown etc) owns anything remotely like what’s in the video you highlighted.”
I have.
CAC = clueless Amway critic
i don’t think pokerpooner is even on the same page half the time, what is he.she on about.
i know what a crow can receive as a one off check, peter cox received a big one on top of his cashflow when they went crown, and they do own their big mansion, and also a big boat… so whats the big deal???
ingrid also reached diamond in five years and that was just last year… it sounds like someone is not paying attention in class.
Apparently he’s as clueless about his Amway critic mates as he is about Amway! 🙂
Red herring. Red herring. Has nothing to do with Steve/JoeCool and his prostitutes.
pokerpooner just knew he was in over his head and needed an excuse to disengage.
What-ev-er.
Amazing – it’s perfectly okay to falsely and publicly accuse thousands of people of being deceitful liars and fraudsters, but point out a known, confirmed fact about an Amway critic?
Oh dear, that’s just beyond the pale isn’t it. 🙄
Wasn’t crap pokerpooner, proven fact, his own words. Or did you miss that part?
Clearly you’ll do anything to defend some of these slimeball Amway/Quixtar critics.
enough said cause when you say crap about people seeing hookers that’s over the top. Going to have dinner and wont be coming back. You’ll say anything to defend these slimeball kingpins of amway/quixtar
But Bridgett! No! Being able to use the jet is irrelevant!! Trips in exotic locations and police escorts – who cares??!?!?
The only thing that is important is grabbing any possible comment and twisting it somehow … someway … to just prove these guys are deceitful!!
It can’t possible be as good as they say, cause I decided not to do it – so I just have to do this to justify it to myself!
Oh, and I reckon a qualifying Double Diamond can probably dig up $8000 for a chair without too much trouble, whaddya reckon Bridgett?
We’ve gone from 14 million dollar planes to eight thousand dollar chairs?????
Can I say something here?
I recently worked on a movie that is currently in theatres with a very famous actor that, in his contract, got access to the movie studio’s corporate jet.
Who cares whether or not the guy ownes the damn thing! Isn’t it about RIDING in it that is the cool factor? Not whether or not you have to pay for the fuel and the crew?
Hello????
There was so much hype and i didnt misunderstood anything. My upline diamond rod jao (who’s now a emerald?) use to tell me Greg Duncan had a chair which he baught for 8 grand.
Mate, if you’re making a few million bucks a year income, don’t you think you might invest some of it and make more money?
What do you think these guys do? Hide cash under their beds? Blow it all on hookers like your mate JoeCool?
Would they have been able to invest millions of dollars a year if they’d stayed with their $50,000/yr jobs?
Everything, including Founders Crown Ambassador incomes and trips, heck, even BSM profit and speaking fees – it’s all available to you, and pretty much anyone else who is willing to learn and work long enough and hard enough.
Where’s the deceit?
Yes i think i remember he told me he was buying this 14 million dollar plane with 14 million other people. So he only had to put in 1.00 😛
pokerpooner,
When Greg mentioned purchasing a 14 million dollar plane, did he say he was going to do it alone?
I ask, because from my recollection, large purchases seemed to include many buyers, like a jet-share type of program.
Maybe you misunderstood him?
bye and gl
Im not very good at arguing this stuff like the other critics. Those private jets are often purchased by other forms of income that some of these kingpin have. Like their tape,seminar,system earnings and not by their crummy amway/quixtar earnings. People are often led to believe that you can achieve this type of lifestyle with the amway income which isnt totally true. Im just blabbling cause we’ll always disagree when it comes to this business
Did you even read what I posted? Some folk *do* own “those toys”.
The point remains, the video you highlighted clearly pointed out, multiple times, that it was highlights of various Founders Council trips – ie, free perks.
Just as clearly, you had no idea at all what this meant.
Another Clueless Amway Critic. QED.
LOL no more comments cause it’s pointless. You’ll continue to defend and i’ll continue to say how crummy this business is. If majority of the people knew that these big pins like triple diamond dont own alot of these toys. They would never join that’s the bottom line.
I’ve never seen anything that even remotely implies that a Diamond (not EDC, not Triple, not Crown etc) owns anything remotely like what’s in the video you highlighted.
As I said, every single time I’ve asked for an example of it, I’ve been provided with a name of someone who is not a Diamond, but in reality has a much, much larger business.
I don’t know about the “average joes” you hang out with, but the “average joes” I hang out with understand that Double Diamonds and Founders Crown Ambassadors make an awful lot more money than Diamonds.
There are plenty of Amway folk who *do* own stuff like that. I know Jim Dornan has a private jet – he bought it at Founders Crown Ambassador. I know Hans Nusshold has a fractional share in a private jet – he bought it at Crown Ambassador.
It’s not deceiving anyone – it can be, and has been, achieved through Amway.
Im saying there are other videos often sold on dvd that do not mention founders counsel etc. I do know about founders counsel rewards etc. But the average person has no clue when looking at these silly videos that these things are perks. Again there are other videos out there which clarely have no mention of founders counsel but makes it seem like these people own all this
So can we both just agree those triple diamonds,CA,founders CA dont own some of those toys advertised to the average distributor but it’s a perk? That the average joe looking at the business is often tricked?
I never claim that diamonds have planes,boats,mansions. I pointed out this video who’s a founders CA. But apparently these triple diamonds,crowns,etc dont own any of these toys. They just borrow or is a perk right?
The video CLEARLY states this it is shots of various Founders Council trips.
Are you admitting you have no knowledge about Founders Council and similar trips?
It seems you like to pick and choose what you read.
What are you babbling about now? I didn’t say I didn’t “know” about the reported foreclosures. For cryin out loud if I didn’t know about them, how could I have even mentioned them?
What I said was I have “no idea” about them. I’ve no idea what the circumstances behind them are. As I said, perhaps he just screwed up somewhere. Maybe All in Energy went bust owing millions? Maybe there’s some dispute with the bank? I haven’t got a clue. The point is – so? People screw up, people get in business disputes – what makes you think Triple Diamonds are somehow immune to being human?
I never claim that diamonds have planes,boats,mansions. I pointed out this video who’s a founders CA. But apparently these triple diamonds,crowns,etc dont own any of these toys. They just borrow or is a perk right?
It seems you like to pick and choose what you read. You read from the other forum reguarding Greg Duncans house forclosure post but never read any of the other postings? You are a liar and know about his reported house foreclosures.
The truth about amway wrote:
“As for Greg Duncan’s reported house foreclosures – I’ve no idea. Never met the man, but I’m guessing he’s human – perhaps he screwed up somewhere?”
Ahh, no. The say, at least in my experience, after 2-5 years of dedication and hard work you can indeed be a diamond, and retired from your job.
Never ever have I seen massive mansions, private jets, motorcades and massive luxury yachts as the province of Diamonds.
Every time I ask for examples of Diamonds displaying lifestyles anything remotely like that, “critics” name people with businesses MUCH bigger than Diamond.
You are aware that there are levels beyond Diamond, aren’t you? And that they earn (a lot) more money and get more and better trips?
That’s where we disagree most people arent aware these are perks. They have other videos showing the wealth without any mention of founders counsel in the videos. Do you want me to go find these videos and post them? You can twist things around anyway you want.
you wrote
in other words, most people watching this video are clearly aware this is a “perk” – it is clearly labelled as such!
We both know when i mention 2-5 yrs the amway motivational organanizations often hype you’ll be a diamond and retired.
The video is a video shown at Amway meetings for IBOs in his group. I am certain the majority of them are more than aware that as you progress from Platinum to Founders Crown Ambassador you are rewarded with numerous free business trips and treated progressively more luxuriously the higher your pin level.
In other words, most people watching this video are clearly aware this is a “perk” – it is clearly labelled as such!
Those that are not aware of it might be inclined, as you were apparently not, to asked what “Founders Council” means, given it was shown on the screen numerous times. You chose simply to ignore what was shown and decide it meant something else.
I’m also not aware of ANYONE, ANYWHERE with any experience in the business at all claiming you can reach Founders Crown Ambassador in “2-5 years”. Greg Duncan took seventeen years to reach Triple Diamond.
What I wonder is whether this is deliberate obfuscation on your part – taking a claim about Diamond, and then associating it with the lifestyles of Triple Diamonds and Founders Crown Ambassadors, or whether during your (probably brief) experience with Amway you were actually so uninterested in learning about the business that you never even took the time to understand the difference.
Either way, a Founders Crown Ambassador, or a Triple Diamond (or Double Diamond, as Greg Duncan was when you claim to have heard him speak) is not the same as a Diamond and earns significantly more. And none of them need to pay for the various “perks” Amway supplies on top.
As for Greg Duncan’s reported house foreclosures – I’ve no idea. Never met the man, but I’m guessing he’s human – perhaps he screwed up somewhere?
People who are shown this business usually are shown how little effort like 2-5 yrs. Then they are told they can own planes,boats,luxury mansions etc. They are never told this is part of founders counsel and that this wasnt owned by this big wig distributor
Maybe this video is a poor example but we where just discusting how Mr Duncan cannot afford a few of his homes and that’s why Mr Kim video was brought up. Most people when watching this video have no idea this was a perk which Mr Kim got and this stuff wasnt owned by him. That’s the thing we’re discussing the hype involved in this business.
“They never come out saying these people dont own these boats,planes,mansions etc”???
They don’t *have* to explicitly say it – they clearly overlay the video with things like “2003 Founders Council”.
If you don’t understand what that means, then you’re just confirming the opinion that you’re clueless about the business. The video is a 100% accurate depiction of the kind of things Amway does for Founders Council qualifiers.
It has alot to do with Mr Duncan because you made comments about my thread in the other forum. Which i was basically responding to Gregs homes forclosing. I was just showing how in the other forum some of these quixtar/amway big pins hype their lifestyle like Charlie Lee Kim. They never come out saying these people dont own these boats,planes,mansions etc. In the video they show Charlie Lee Kim with a bunch of motorcycles and a luxury vehicle arriving like a king. Even at Founders CA there’s no possible way Mr Kim can live like a king but people hype their lifestyles without telling people these items are rented or amway owned. Average person looking at the plan would think Mr Kim is making 20 mill + a year.
And that has exactly what to do with Charlie Lee Kim Soon & Linda Ng Kwee Choo?
Your comment was about their video, not Greg Duncan.
Infact Mr Duncan claimed in was purchasing a 14 million dollar plane back in 94.
While i was in the business in 94 im told by Greg Duncan he owned helicopters,planes,mansions,boats etc. They never ever said these are rentals or perks given by the corporation for a short time.
insider wrote”But that doesn’t really show pokerpooner’s cluelessness about the Amway business as much as this – watch the video. Except for the last section, apparently in their home, all the “helicopters, planes, mansions, boats etc” are part of free, Amway supplied trips!”
Thanks IBOFB, so many of these negative/destructive critics try to come across like they know everything about the business. They give their “expert” opinion.
In reality, all they are are outsiders looking in. We used to have an old tape called “The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.” It described an old scene of a caravan going through a city, dogs would come out, run alongside, and bark at the caravan. Now I’m not calling them dogs, but I think you get the message. All they want to do is run alongside Amway Global, and “bark”.
But no matter what, the caravan moves on!