More Clueless Amway Critics

Last year a user posted the following great video on youtube of Amway Malaysia’s first Founders Crown AmbassadorsCharlie Lee Kim Soon & Linda Ng Kwee Choo –

Yesterday, one of the regular Amway Quixtar critics on the QuixtarBlog forums, pokerpooner, had the following to say about it –

LOL Joecool take a look at this video on youtube. This is the type of lifestyle they try too live. With helicopters,planes,mansions,boats etc. No possible way they can can live that way with a amway or system income

Pokerpooner has nearly 150 posts on these “critics” forums, so he’s not a complete neophyte. But let’s look at his comment on the video – “this is the type of lifestyle the try too live … No possible way they can live that way with a amway or system income”

How much ignorance does this comment reveal? First of all, these folk are Founders Crown Ambassadors. That’s an Amway business that has, at a minimum, either 20 separate Founder’s Platinum legs or 9 legs, each with a Diamond in it. A few years ago Quixtar reported that the average income for Founders Executive Diamond and above (that’s 9 separate Founders Platinum legs and more, less than half a Founders Crown) was in excess of a million dollars a year.

There’s a whole lot of lifestyle that can be bought with an income of more than a million dollars a year. Heck, according to The Millionaire Next Door, the average millionaire has a household income of only around $247,000! A Founders Crown Ambassador likely has an income at least ten times that of the average millionaire.

But that doesn’t really show pokerpooner’s cluelessness about the Amway business as much as this – watch the video. Except for the last section, apparently in their home, all the “helicopters, planes, mansions, boats etc” are part of free, Amway supplied trips! The video clearly labels various Founders Council events, and the yacht highlighted is Amway’s yacht – The Enterprise. They don’t need Amway income or system income to pay for all this stuff, pokerpooner – it’s all free!

It makes you wonder how clueless some critics are about the rest of the Amway business, if they’re not even aware of the free trips included even when they’re clearly labelled in a video.

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96 thoughts on “More Clueless Amway Critics”

  1. we are double eagle ruby in the amway business. there is no way to lose money in the amway business my wife and i spent less than 2 years building the business to this point neither of us have to get up and go to work for anyone and we still build the business obviously striving for diamond. so for all the ibo’s out there reading this don’t waist your time there will always be those out there who have negative crap to say because the have not got the intelligence to do proper research or who just could not cut the mustard like pokerpooner ? lol come on the name should say it all any one can write on the bathroom wall so if that is where you do your research and you want to learn about amway your in the right spot but if you want the truth about amway get out of here don’t listen to these broke ass employees for your financial advice wouldn’t you rather listen to some one with more than you on how to get more this is the place you could get reputable advice on how to paint your trailer and do your sister. i get your defending us ibofightback but its a lost cause your time could be better spent showing the business and helping your family and the many others out there you will affect and help.
    ps pokerpooner or what ever you call your trailer trash ass i got all my income prof we make a great living with this business

    1. You can definitely lose money in Amway. Spend money on a lot of learning, but never doing much is a sure way to lose money. Many people who ‘lost’ money in Amway are like this 🙂

  2. I have met Lee Kim Soon and Linda personally in several Amway functions…despite his background of only primary 2 education and she only studied up to Secondary 3, they are truly successful in the business and still very humble, and share their wisdom with many of us.

    I believe in the Amway lifestyle, and there are many success stories in Malaysia, Singapore, China and Vietnam – those I am in touch with. The trips are real. I qualified for them myself, and we see the crowns travel in style. The money is real, but everything begins with effort and hard work, and being willing to help people help themselves.

    As for the tapes (CDs), books and functions – I wouldn’t know what I would have done without them. Being a Malaysian living in Brunei that has very few functions and just a population of 400,000, these tools have spurred me beyond what I would not have been able to do on my own, motivated me when there are challenges, and taught me a lot of wisdom. Imagine a CD that just costs abt USD2 but one that will provides many hours of repetitive motivation…this is priceless wisdom, and one that I can listen as often as I like.

    Thank you Amway, for giving us health, wealth, hope, freedom and a chance to change our lives. I believe.

  3. That is the negative people on this site are losers, cheers to the optimists that know it’s a legit business that pays big time.

    1. Tom. with respect, calling people “losers” does not reflect well on you, Amway, or the Amway opportunity. Rich DeVos himself has spoken out against such use of the term, and I wholeheartedly agree with him.

  4. You’re all losers on this site because y’all didn’t have what it takes to succeed in Amway or anything in Life.

    A Winner doesn’t waste their precious time on a useless site like this.

    Only people with very low I.Q. would fall for your weak manipulation techniques.

  5. Patience is the key! Tomie, you got it! It is part of the factors that will make one a success in any industry, in fact. Which industry will let you just go to the place and pay you without you putting in the effort?

    Do you get an “A” in academics without going to school and expect that? Will your boss even award you something without you putting in any effort?

    It isn’t really about just an Amway business. It’s about changing your buying power. All those perks that the EDC, Diamonds, Triple Diamonds, etc that they took up to show the rest that this is the lifestyle that you can achieve if you put in that time and effort.

  6. buildng a business is not something that is easily built. having to live in the system means you build it from scraps and into a big foundation, if you ever succeeded. but thats just what you are if turns out either failure or success.
    as in amway business, it has been 50 years and those who achieve in amway really achieved their life, or would i say, changing their lifestyles. they own mansions, big boys toys, womens dreams, etc because they succeed and why? BECAUSE they are patient and in business like this, patient is the main role. remember if you’re an amway business owner, amway always gave us the choice to chane these 4 points of life, family, freedom, health and income (as in rewards).
    those who have achieved their business in amway have earned their UNCOMMON FREEDOM. there’s nothing we should be envy of. because we too can become one. when we say ‘correct path’, think again, think of the life we live within the 30 years of work we’ve work for, whether its in companies, civil works or commercial works.
    what amway gave is something that has been proved by many. so critics doesn’t play any role in ones future or destroying ones will to achieve greatness in business, their just critics from those who didn’t achieve anything and those who haven’t think of their future with their family.
    good luck….

  7. pokerpooner: “LOL im going to a stripclub right now. But im afraid ibofightsback might rat me out with comments about me going to see a hooker on this site…Like i said a few times i dont have the audio of what insider asked for. Yes im a clueless critic but atleast im not wasting my money and time involved in this stupid business.”

    I invested a little under 8K in this business and in 33 months I became what is known as an Emerald. If you know anything about the business you get a 75K bonus every year you hold that pin…so did I waste money and time or are you waisting money and time with your habits. I am really sorry that you had an upline that was not honest but have you ever thought maybe not everyone is like that in Amway? I hope you can move past this and recognize that you are the only one holding your self back. Keep going everyone!

  8. I have been actively building the Amway business in South Africa since February 2008.I’m finding that it delivers as long as the work is done. I find it amazing that people of the ilk of pokerpooner obviously failed to build An Amway business and like all failures try to find an excuse for their failure and then try to pick holes in this incredible business. Why don’t they admit they failed and just move on?

  9. Hi,
    I’m a 2 month old IBO from Singapore and I’m thankful that i was shown the business plan by my upline. I’m gonna be 20 soon and i barely earn any money but here’s my 2 cents worth. To all the critics and the nit-pickers of the business plan out there, show me something better than the 40 year plan cuz i sure as hell don’t wanna wind up working my arse off for a minimal pay after i graduate from university. Even investments in the stock markets and such seem to be a huge risk nowadays. I saw Peter Cox’s life when i went for the Malaysian WLS and i’m pretty sure he owns that huge mansion and boat himself.
    To all the positive IBO’s out there, here’s a quote from Peter Cox.
    “If you wanna be successful in this business, you gotta stop worrying about what other people think!”

  10. Spin spin spin,

    Rocket I would require you to find on single instance of this being said. Since you know exactly what was said and when, why can’t you go find the CD or tape? Versus, have IBOFB scour dozens of CDs/tapes and posting them all on MP3s so everyone can waste their time listening to it.

    It make sense that since you are the first to claim they said it, the burden of REAL proof is on you, friend. Unless you just want to engage pointless run-around dialogue, thus wasting your time and ours!


  11. If you call 5 or 6 years before they went EDC a short time, then I guess you would be right.

    Again, if you can prove I didn’t hear it, and it wasn’t on a tape, good for you.

    I’m not about to spend countless hours tracking down things I already know to be true and accurate to the best of my knowledge.

    That would be equivalent to asking you to prove they don’t exist.

    Not a shocking request, coming from you.

  12. The fact they shortly afterwards qualified EDC and Double Diamond indicates they had a much bigger business than the average Diamond. Try to twist it however you want.

    Can YOU provide any evidence of these folk saying they paid cash for these things? Please, post some MP3s. Why is it so hard to actually provide any evidence to back up your claims? Isn’t there supposed to be millions of ex-IBOs with garages full of tapes?

    And yet you can’t provide a single one to back up what you are saying?

    Why is that?

  13. IBOFB,

    “Crawford’s went EDC. Wilson’s went Double Diamond.”

    I was told this DIRECTLY when Crawfords were diamond, NOT EDC.

    Wilsons were EDC. Never said they weren’t, and you, as expected, went into a hissy fit proclaiming unfairness inaccuracies.

    They were lying diamonds who misrepresented income potential. So were the (sp?) Mackanernies, Jim & Kelli Law, Casey Combden, and Don Lorencz among many others.

    So, yes, the Wilsons were at the EDC level. All other diamonds who spoke from a True North stage.

    And they were all doing what you infer doesn’t happen.

    If you don’t think it’s still happening, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

  14. Mike,

    The jest of the post was that someone was insinuating Charlie Lee Kim Soon & Linda Ng Kwee Choo were “faking” their lifestlye in the video, when the video itself clearly points out that it’s of “the perks”, not things they’d purchased.

    Nowhere did they claim they paid “cash” for any of it.

    I agree that excessive and extravagent income/wealth claims are not helpful, but frankly, having experienced what “critics” do to things I say – regularly claiming I’ve said things that don’t remotely match what I actually said – without some evidence I’m simply not going to believe their “excessive” claims.

  15. It seems the jest of this discussion concerns the statements made by those sucessful in the Amway business. The basic theme is ownership of property and who actually owns it.

    When a person states they own something, or “paid cash” it means it is theirs to do with as they wish, it is not a perk, or added bonus. It is purchased from existing income.

    If they receive a trip due to a bonus/perk, They did not pay for that trip, it is part of the payment. This does not make it less valid an item for them, however, it did not cost them anything, it is a benefit.

    The proclaiming of wealth made from a business is valid, and at higher levels more is obtainable, this is the means of promoting the sucess of a business.

    The Amway business is based on growth, and it is proclaimed that the wealth is uncappable, you can earn any amount you wish. This is an empty statement unless it is proven by the showing of wealth, the more the better.

    The Business is also based on those downline, buying into the business, making their PV levels by either buying products and/or retailing the products.

    The proof of a diamond and above is fueled by what they can spend the money on. Money made selling products. Without this proof, those intrested in joining their ranks as an IBO is greatly effected.

    So it is a valid and necessary action for those diamonds and above, to “show the wealth”. To show that it can be done, that all things are possible.

    The proof of the claims rest on the shoulders of those making the claims. When a diamond claims that they paid cash for a car, then they own the car, with money they earned from their Amway business. It is a valid statement,


    When someone claims that being at the upper levels means that they can spend money on anything they wish, pay cash and it is theirs, because this business is sound. Then later the contrary is presented, this can weaking the value of the business.

  16. Like i said a few times i dont have the audio of what insider asked for. Yes im a clueless critic but atleast im not wasting my money and time involved in this stupid business

  17. Is it at all possible for critics to stick to the topic that they are being questioned about,

    without going loopy in four different directions

    in order to avoid the fact that they’ve been exposed

    on display for all to see

    that they are clueless about the Amway/Quixtar business?

  18. By the way what pin level are you? What’s your net income minus expenses??? Love you bark and you must be some bigwig with a cadillac in the drive way.

    Aug 21st, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Thanks IBOFB, so many of these negative/destructive critics try to come across like they know everything about the business. They give their “expert” opinion.
    In reality, all they are are outsiders looking in. We used to have an old tape called “The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.” It described an old scene of a caravan going through a city, dogs would come out, run alongside, and bark at the caravan. Now I’m not calling them dogs, but I think you get the message. All they want to do is run alongside Amway Global, and “bark”.
    But no matter what, the caravan moves on!

  19. lol atleast i dont blow my money buying over priced products or tools

    Aug 22nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm


    My comment to you simply proves this. You really don’t know what you are talking about.

    Give it a rest.

  20. Of course you’ll go off and say so and so in this video is double diamond or the guy who’s speaking about 250k a yr without much effort is kicked out of the business. You’re very good at making excuses. As for burning you audio im not the type of person who has boxes of audio on hand. I cant be bothered with that crap

  21. Still trying to change the topic huh?

    Back up your claims

    You reckon there’s garages full of tapes, and that this was normal, so that means, if you’re telling the truth, that there’s an awful lot proof out there!

    So why won’t you provide it?

  22. That’s what i said when im shown the quixtar opportunity. The income claims are over the top.

    Provide some evidence to support your extraordinary claim, that’s all I’m asking. From what you’re saying the evidence should be extremely easy to obtain. So please, do so.

  23. What do you have to say about the owner of amway quixtar saying in directly speaking tapes where he talks about the abuses income claims etc and garages full of tapes.

  24. So you’ve got no evidence at all to back up your claim that everyone is told Diamond pay cash for everything? Can’t rocket or joecool or someone help? Don’t give up so easily. If what your saying is actually true it should be very easy to back it up.

    Very easy.

    So back it up. That’s all I’m asking for.

    1. Look up Mark Crawford. I personally knew him and his wife when he still had a JOB. He was an instrument tech for an oil company. He was in Amway and has moved to Monavie for a better opportunity. I have been in his coach, Jag, and know people who have been at his house. So ya you should find out how to build it because if you can be personable, likable and are willing to work for it… But then again you need to believe in yourself and what you want, and the company.

  25. I dont hold on to these crummy tapes or audio. Im sure you can go to and take a look at what the owner of amway has to say. He made those directly speaking tapes talking about the abuse,income claims,and garages full of tapes

  26. The typical response of the critbot. As soon as someone challenges their claims and asks for some evidence – out comes random irrelevant nonsense in an attempt to change the subject.

    Provide some evidence to support your extraordinary claim, that’s all I’m asking. From what you’re saying the evidence should be extremely easy to obtain. So please, do so.

  27. Im sure we’re all imagining things and all the critics are lying. You’re the only person who knows everything about quixtar and this amazing business right?

  28. Do i really care if you believe me? What have you done with this amazing business? You’ve probably lost money with buying overpriced products like the rest of us and spending tons on tapes,functions etc. Take a look at the dateline episode on quixtar.

  29. So … you’re claiming that someone in some position of “authority” told you, and hundreds or thousands of others, from stage, more than once, that the thousands of Diamonds all around the world buy jets cash? And they buy “mansions” cash?

    And indeed it was explictly said about the Crawfords and Wilsons?

    Carl Sagan once said “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.”

    Your claim is an extraordinary one. However, it shouldn’t require extraordinary proof. These seminars are taped and copies sold on tape/CD. Since you are claiming this is common, then it should be a very simply matter to get a hold of one of these tapes or CDs (they likely made hundreds or thousands), convert the relevant part to MP3, email it to me and I’ll post it up.

    Until then, as far as I’m concerned you’re spouting unadulterated hogwash. I don’t believe you, simple as that.

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